going small to big, any learning tools?

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NWGuy

New member
After 4 years on a Sym HD 200, moved up to a 650 a couple weeks ago. Big difference between under 300 lbs and 600 lbs, especially at slow speeds. Still very much in the parking lot phase. I like to supplement my learning with videos and books, but have not found anything that is maxiscoot specific. The regular motorcycle books/videos all keep referencing the importance of the 'friction zone', obviously, we don't have friction zones, thus no way to keep engine RPM high while doing slow speed maneuvers (more important with the heavier bikes). There are no MSF advanced rider classes for maxiscoots.

Anyone with any references/resources to assist learning to control heavier scoots during slow speed maneuvers?

Thanks
NWGuy
 
Xian Forbes

Xian Forbes

New member
I also went from a Sym hd200 right into my sport. I will be honest, I've spent damn near my whole two wheeled life on vintage Vespa and Lambretta with the occasional Yamaha RD thrown in. I bought the Sym after not riding for about six years and after re-catching the bug went out and brought home a 600sport.

It took me about 1,000 miles to fully feel comfortable on the big machine. Mostly I found myself sliding forward on the seat at stops and back on the seat whilst riding. As far as slow speed stuff , I found the Beemer to be well balanced and fairly easy to maneuver once you get the hang of how a cvt delivers power at super slow speeds. 550 lbs is quite a bit different from something like a Sym, but stick with it and enjoy the ride.
 
JaimeC

JaimeC

New member
Slow speeds are definitely interesting with a CVT. On a regular motorcycle, I play with the rear brake and the clutch friction zone. With the CVT, if you slow down too much, the clutch disengages and you're suddenly on a 500 lbs BICYCLE. What works for me is to lightly use the rear brake and the throttle together to modulate speed at anything approaching "walking speeds." That keeps the clutch engaged and allows me to more easily perform the tight maneuvers.

*Note: To clarify my statements above, I keep the throttle steady to keep the rpms up (which keeps the clutch engaged) and use the rear brake to modulate my speed rather than make throttle adjustments.
 
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Scorpion56

Scorpion56

Member
I went from a 150cc Honda to this beast, so I understand the transition. But I found it fairly easy. I was very intimidated taking it out for that first test ride - I'll never forget it. Under 300 to almost 600 pounds!

My trick at slow speeds, like approaching a red traffic light is to blip (small on/off twist movement) the throttle. Keeps the bike upright longer than I'd expect, which many times allows me to creep up to the stopped traffic without having to put my foot down. I also blip the throttle just before coming out of a turn. Which also makes the bike want to stand up. A friend gave me Nick Ienatsch's book "Sport Riding Techniques" when I first started riding. The techniques he writes about, including blipping, and especially braking and turning, are things I think about every time I ride. I go back and re-read the highlighted passages often. Most of the skills are good even for Urban Mobility vehicles (minus the clutch skills) like ours. Enjoy the new ride.
 
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wsteele

New member
The more that you ride the bike you will gain more confidence it will just take time before you find that the bike easy to ride and every thing wii become second nature. Some of the pluses are you won't get blown around on the interstates with a more heavy bike, you will be able to pass quicker, and the ABS brakes are really good, they have saved my Ass twice sofar.
 
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NWGuy

New member
reassuring

Xian Forbes said:
It took me about 1,000 miles to fully feel comfortable on the big machine.

Its reassuring to hear that going from the 200 to a 650 is going to take some time, I was starting to question myself. I have to remember to think back to when I started on the Sym that it took some time before it was comfortable.

Thanks
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SteveADV

SteveADV

Active member
JaimeC said:
Slow speeds are definitely interesting with a CVT. On a regular motorcycle, I play with the rear brake and the clutch friction zone.....
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I forgot that my concern when I first got my C650GT was not having the control of a manual clutch. And unlike others that had experience with big touring bikes, the biggest bike I had ridden for any length of time weighed 150lbs less, and the weight distribution was very different. So, I took the advice of one of my MSF instructors and spent time slow riding in empty parking lots.

One word of simple advice from a guy who learned the hard way, when going slow, or maneuvering, think rear brake. Avoid the front brake.
 
dascooter

dascooter

New member
I went from a 150 to the 650 and after a couple of rides, felt right at home. Actually, really enjoyed the extra power and weight on the highways and windy days. My only issue was getting it on the center stand. That took a little longer but eventually I got the hang of it. Also, moving it around the garage takes a little more muscle. But that hasn't really been an issue.
 
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Colin J Monteith

New member
dascooter said:
My only issue was getting it on the center stand. That took a little longer but eventually I got the hang of it.
Day 1 with new C600 and tried the center stand and thought it had me beat. Then I looked down and of course the side stand (with its brake) was still engaged. Did I feel stupid but my Honda Forza allowed that. I have found it easier than the Forza now and can't figure out why with about another 100 lb.
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Snowdog

New member
Remember to always stop where both feet can touch the ground, other wise the extra weight will make it much harder to recover if you loose your balance.
 
grey.hound

grey.hound

New member
I have found that pushing my foot against the floorboard opposite of the direction of my turn (u-turns anyway) seems to make the balance better. Maybe just in my head though. Just for example: left u-turn, push right foot toward the outside of the turn along with a little rear break/throttle combo if necessary.

Still not as easy as my 250 though.
 
Skutorr

Skutorr

Active member
That's why in Europe they have the different classes of motorcycle/scooter licenses, so you work your way UP to a bigger, faster and heavier machine. I read a thread in the Spanish Tmax Forum about a guy who bought the new 530, but chose to LEAVE it at the dealer to eliminate the temptation to ride it, as he only had an A3 license. 6 weeks later he finally got his A2 and could ride the Tmax 530. (If he wanted, he STILL couldn't ride a C600/650, as they are over the Hp/Torque limits and require an A1 License...)
 
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Colin J Monteith

New member
Skutorr said:
That's why in Europe they have the different classes of motorcycle/scooter licenses, so you work your way UP to a bigger, faster and heavier machine. I read a thread in the Spanish Tmax Forum about a guy who bought the new 530, but chose to LEAVE it at the dealer to eliminate the temptation to ride it, as he only had an A3 license. 6 weeks later he finally got his A2 and could ride the Tmax 530. (If he wanted, he STILL couldn't ride a C600/650, as they are over the Hp/Torque limits and require an A1 License...)
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They have a 3 stage graduated license program here in Ontario, Canada but there are no restrictions on the type of bike at any level. With first level (written test only) you could go out and ride a Harley if you chose. When I did rider training, a guy who had only ridden for about a month turned up on a Gold Wing. Some idiots in our government think they were doing the right thing when they developed the program. Some of these other countries have it right when the restrict it by cc.
 
Sparkrn

Sparkrn

Member
I have found the BMW to take turns at speed to be exceptional. At lower then 20 mph the clutch disengages and when you accelerate again the engine free wheels for a brief second and slams into the clutch again and gives a jolt. Kinda of wierd feeling, but a guess you get used to it
 
JaimeC

JaimeC

New member
Snowdog said:
Remember to always stop where both feet can touch the ground, other wise the extra weight will make it much harder to recover if you loose your balance.
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I find having ONE foot down solid is far more stable than having two feet on tip-toes. It's a technique I've perfected over DECADES of riding PTWs. Also it is the method taught by the MSF when you take the course (the right foot solidly on the rear brake to keep the bike from rolling, and the left foot solidly on the ground).

I know beginners like having both feet down but really, you should practice the proper technique. It is a lot safer and more stable unless you've got legs like Yao Ming.
 
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Colin J Monteith

New member
Interesting as at rider training here in Toronto they preached both feet on the ground. If you stopped during the test and they saw it there was one foot only it was a potential one point loss. One point was not deadly as you had to go 13 or higher to fail overall. Canadians like to be a bit more stable overall with both feet firmly planted!!!!! :cool::cool::cool:


JaimeC said:
I find having ONE foot down solid is far more stable than having two feet on tip-toes. It's a technique I've perfected over DECADES of riding PTWs. Also it is the method taught by the MSF when you take the course (the right foot solidly on the rear brake to keep the bike from rolling, and the left foot solidly on the ground).

I know beginners like having both feet down but really, you should practice the proper technique. It is a lot safer and more stable unless you've got legs like Yao Ming.
Click to expand...
 
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JaimeC

JaimeC

New member
When seated on an 850 lbs touring bike stopped on a hill, trust me... having one foot solid on the ground with the other planted on the rear brake is not only more stable than trying to hold it on the balls of your feet and the front brake, but it is a lot easier to get rolling again since your right hand only has to deal with rolling the throttle, not balancing the throttle and brake simultaneously.

BTW, on the standard road test in NYS, they want both feet on the ground at red lights and stop signs. This is a legal requirement, probably dreamed up by people who never rode motorcycles. When taking the MSF-created riding evaluation here, the RiderCoach checks to see if your right foot remains on the brake. It is points off if it is not.
 
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Colin J Monteith

New member
JaimeC said:
BTW, on the standard road test in NYS, they want both feet on the ground at red lights and stop signs. This is a legal requirement, probably dreamed up by people who never rode motorcycles. When taking the MSF-created riding evaluation here, the RiderCoach checks to see if your right foot remains on the brake. It is points off if it is not.
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Crazy that they train you to fail part of the road test. Up here they train you to pass the road test which is what I previously mentioned.
I had just gotten used to combined braking on a Honda before moving to the BMW and am now used to controlled stops with both hands and both feet. Ah, the beauty of a scoot with both brakes up top!
 
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