Front tyre Life

Bob66

Member
Hello everybody, I'm new to the forum and am based in the UK.

I've had my CE 04 since April and have clocked up just over 3500 miles. The thing is, the front tyre (a Maxxis Supermaxx SC) is now worn down to the wear markers in a band about halfway between the centre and edge of the tyre giving the tyre a somewhat triangular profile. The rear tyre looks fine and has loads of tread left. My old R1200RT used to give a similar wear pattern to the front although I used to get over 6000 miles tyre life. Currently, I have a R1200R which has done 6600 miles on the current tyres and the front tyre still has a bit of life left and shows no signs of uneven wear. I should note that I am very careful to keep my tyres at the correct pressures almost to the point of obsession.

I would be interested in the opinions of the forum. Have any other CE 04 owners experienced low front tyre life and uneven wear or is it just me? This is my first ever scooter so I have no experience about how they wear out tyres. My first thoughts are that it could be related to a combination of high weight and front-biased weight distribution (similar to the situation with my old R1200RT) exacerbated by the smaller tyre radius.
 

triangletom

Active member
Thanks for the warning! Judging against the tires thread on the German forum - I'd say 3500mi is somewhat normal, at least in the front: https://www.elektroroller-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29654&start=40 - though some have suggested longer lifetimes.

This jives with my experience with electric vehicles burning through tires much faster than standard ones - on both cars and eBikes. This is due both to multiple factors, not the least of which: torque & weight, but also the tire design is often different as they are tuned for lower rolling resistance.

What mode do you typically ride in? I'd love to see the stats of tire-longevity for eco users vs dynamic users.
 

Bob66

Member
That's certainly food for thought, thanks for the link. I hope that I can get better life out of my next set of tyres which are Michelin Pilot Road 4s. I had these tyres on a previous bike (a K1300s) and was very impressed by the secure feeling they gave in corners in the wet but unfortunately I didn't have the bike long enough to gauge their longevity.

For the majority of the life of the Maxxis tyres I rode in Eco mode but latterly I switched to Road mode since I prefer its livelier acceleration and more subtle regenerative braking - Dynamic mode is a bit on/off for my liking. I'll continue with Road mode from now on and keep watch over the front tyre in the hope that switching to a lower level of regenerative braking will minimise front tyre wear.
 

triangletom

Active member
I'm still honestly surprised about the front wheel wearing down so much earlier than the rear. I don't know about the weight bias on the CE 04, but let's assume for a moment that it's 50/50, which is common on electric vehicles but uncommon on gas-powered vehicles.

The CE 04 motor only drives the rear wheel, so with a 50/50 distribution, the impact of wheel torque would result in the rear wearing down faster. This is what happens on most Tesla models for instance, where even in AWD, the rear drives most of the power and wears ~25% faster than the front (hence ~4 rotations during the tire's lifetime).

The front wheel does get hit with steering (wearing down of the edges) and ~80% of braking duties (wearing down the center). I'm honestly not sure which wheels the regenerative braking is hooked up to on the CE04: the front would make the most sense from an efficiency point-of-view, but I have seen rear-hub mounted e-bikes that only had regen on the rear wheel. It's probably just on the front wheel of the CE 04, but perhaps it's both!

Changing tires sucks, but at least you won't have to change the brake pads so often!
 
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Bob66

Member
I'm pretty sure that there is no regeneration from the front wheel on the CE 04 - there is no obvious machinery for it and it wouldn't make sense from a safety point of view to have an extra level of unpredictability in the front wheel braking characteristics. After thinking about it more, I don't feel that there is much direct effect from the (rear) regenerative braking and in any case I don't see how it is different in effect from engine braking on an ICE bike. My R1200R is a similar weight to the CE 04 and the engine braking level is such as to be able to ride in a similar fashion to the CE 04 with respect to use of brakes yet the R1200R front tyre wear characteristics are normal after 6600 miles. There are no obvious flat sides to the front tyre profile and there is about 1.5 to 2 mm tread left on the shoulders. I shall replace these tyres soon.

I feel that the wear pattern on my CE 04 is a likely result of increased load under cornering from a combination of:
  • my riding style (perhaps I ride the CE 04 too much at the same angle of lean when I corner)
  • increased milage on twisty roads and reduced milage on high-speed straight roads
The rate of wear compared to my experience of motorcycle front tyres could be explained by a combination of:
  • lower tyre radius meaning less tyre having to do the same duty
  • lower tyre radius resulting in a smaller contact area with the road thus leading to increased shear stress during cornering (I have noticed an increased tendency for the front wheel to "wash out" on my Brompton fold-up bike with its 16" wheels compared to larger-wheeled bikes)
  • high mass and slightly front-heavy mass distribution leading to high shear stress
  • the very low centre of gravity which could push the tyres less into the road and more along the road during cornering resulting in more sliding and less gripping
  • the very long wheelbase of the CE 04 (some of the effect could be similar to the effect from low centre of gravity proposed above)
  • characteristics unique to the Maxxis Supermaxx SC front tyre compound
Of course, it's likely that interactions between all these effects conspire to produce premature front tyre wear but I hope that it is the Maxxis tyre that is the dominant effect otherwise this scooter is going to be more expensive to run than I bargained for. If this becomes a common experience then chewing through front tyres will not be a good look on a product that is sold on its environmental credentials.
 

Rootctrl

Member
Not sure, I thought the Maxxis eres just a rebranded Perrlis or vice versa after I saw a post on a German bmw forum about the tires. I have a little over 3200 miles on mine and the thread dept is fairly deep on both tires. I dont have too many twisty roads I travel on.
 

SeaE04

New member
Speaking of tires, I have zero knowledge on motorcycle or scooter tires. Can someone catch me up?

- Are the stock tires on the CE 04 good? Where would they rank in general for scooters?
- Are there a lot of other brands and tread patterns for scooters with our wheel size?
- What are some of the "best" tires for the CE 04, particularly in colder wetter climates?
- Do we just buy replacements online then have the dealer replace them?
 

wspollack

Active member
Speaking of tires, I have zero knowledge on motorcycle or scooter tires. Can someone catch me up?

- Are the stock tires on the CE 04 good? Where would they rank in general for scooters?
- Are there a lot of other brands and tread patterns for scooters with our wheel size?
- What are some of the "best" tires for the CE 04, particularly in colder wetter climates?
- Do we just buy replacements online then have the dealer replace them?
Well, I don't specifically know beans about the CE 04 and its tires, but I have been riding for a few decades now, much of that on scooters, and can give you some general info and opinions, since you're new to the world of powered two wheelers:

- Bike tires last nowhere as long as car tires, so you have to get used to frequent replacement if you ride a lot. In many motorcycle forums you can read about "dark-siding," which refers to some folks' replacing rear motorcycle tires with car tires; this is a highly controversial topic -- much like what oil is best -- and I personally don't recommend it, but it shows how frustrated some folks get with the shorter life of bike tires.

- Usually, the rear tire wears out first, especially on heavier bikes, often in the ratio of about two rears to one front, but this is not always the case. Apparently the CE 04 goes through front tires first. Similarly, just the other day I measured the tires on my C 400 GT, after taking delivery last June and putting about 4,300 miles on it: the front, at the wear bars is now about 3/32", while the rear is about 6/32".

- You can research the available tires at bike-tire manufacturer sites -- Pirelli, Dunlop, etc. -- in your sizes. I suspect the pickings will be slim, as this is generally the case with smaller and uncommon sizes. The greatest availability and competition is in the realm of, say, 17" sportbike tires, and also in common cruiser sizes.

- If there are some choices, you'll have to search for reviews (if any). In general -- not always completely the case, but in general -- there is a trade-off between handling and longevity. That is, tires with more grip tend to have softer compounds, which tend to wear out quickest. Thus, tire-choosing is often a case of how spirited you like to ride, vs. the cost of replacing tires.

- Some -- some, but not necessarily all -- dealers will frown on your bringing tires to them to be mounted, or possibly flat-out refuse to do so. For convenience and if you value keeping in the good graces of a local dealer, and to support a local business, you will have the dealer order, as well as install, tires. This lets them get the profit from the tires, in addition to mounting and balancing fees. You might research the on-line price, and might even let the dealer know that you've done so -- "Hey, I hope you don't charge much more than [web company ABC]"; I think you may be surprised that the dealer's markup isn't very much, and you won't have to pay shipping. You wouldn't bring a car alternator to a local mechanic, and have him or her install it in your car, would you? Well, this sort of thing might happen sometimes, but it's certainly not the general case. Often, it's the other way around, e.g., you buy a battery at Pep Boys, et al., and they put it in free.

- A fair number of motorcycle owners buy mounting and balancing equipment, so they won't have to use dealers at all. This sort of investment is non-trivial, but so is the cost of lots of mounting. Also note that, in general, it is more difficult to dismount and mount smaller scooter tires than it is for larger sportbike and cruiser tires, because there is less flexibility in small diameters. So I'm not recommending this for you, but just putting it out there.

I hope some of this helps get you, um, up to speed.
 
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pilsu

New member
- i use google translater

Are you sitting too far forward? The ce-04 model has a flat seat and the sitting position is not accurate. Other motocycles have a seat shape and a specific sitting position, but not this model. I also sat front a while ago. By the way, I found myself sitting too far forward. I am sitting in the middle now.

if seat front and turn with braking, i think this bring about front tyer edge wear
 

Bob66

Member
I have the Backrest Comfort Seat, the one for shorter riders since I'm about 5' 8". I ride with my backside hard against the hump since my legs are a little longer than average for my height with an inseam of 32". I sometimes wish I had gone for the Backrest Comfort Seat II with the hump 50 mm further back. I cannot see any obvious non-uniform wear on my front Michelin Pilot Road 4 but it's a bit too soon to make any judgements since I've only done about 700 winter miles on them. I'll report back when they've done some more spirited duty.
 
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