Interesting Gomparison of BMW C600 and Tmax 530!

Skutorr

Active member
Here is the article link (in Italian):
BMW C 600, Yamaha T Max 530 - Prove Moto
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And a condensed Google Translation into English...:

Face-off between BMW C 600 Sport and the Yamaha TMAX 530 is a challenge that transcends the pure performance and philosophizes on two different schools of thought

The BMW C 600 Sport and the Yamaha TMAX 530 are the leading exponents of a hybrid race created in the laboratory and then crazed, wild beasts who trust only their own bosses and no one else. In any case, these two maxi sports offer a discrete practicality, which is then their real strength compared to motorcycles.

There are plenty of convenient drawers in leg shield (but more spacious with sliding unappealing on the BMW), the 12V socket (absent on the Yamaha), adjustable windshield (with two knobs for German, an allen wrench for the Japanese), convenient management instrumentation (the Sport button on the handlebar within reach of an inch), the parking brake (the German is automatically activated with the opening of the side stand) and the inevitable underseat storage: discreet for the TMAX, something in addition to the C-Sport, which grows in the park thanks to FlexCase, a "bag" stretch that finds its limit in the impossibility to use it in gear. On balance, the BMW wins the first round against a TMAX accustomed to reign unchallenged for 10 years now and not in terms of its rich endowment.

But then, just watch and Iwata will win the maxi with those big eyes "Puss in Boots" Shrek is so beautiful that shines with its own light, while the German, despite the coat of arms and the higher price, it loses comparison on attention to detail and perceived quality. It can only look away so as not to be blinded by the finishes delicious version BlackMax scooter Yamaha components in gold (too flashy), the velvet lining of the saddle (pure lust) and the magnificent "two-tone" black on black.
Yes, because here we have compared two schools of thought, the German (and European in general) who wants to transport performance combined with cycling solid against the Japanese, voted agility. In short, driving stability against execution speed, brute force vs. flexibility: we are no longer in the skin.

Checkered Flag down, gas and hammer away at the hull along the mile and a half of straight asphalt, for a heads up that sees the C 600 Sport cut the line first: what mom pushes German! The BlackMax shoots all his cartridges in the first meters of departure thanks to its excellent transmission, which throws him off like a slingshot. The C-Sport, however, suffers a slight uncertainty on the part of the clutch, that "unstuck" with a second delay each time you open everything, as if scalasse a pair of gears. Overcome the hesitation, the BMW on the obverse is a lippa, the difference in power (13.5 hp more) is so clear that while svernici the TMAX can also berti coffee.

But power is not everything, especially if it is accompanied by a physical hypertrophic and inelastic. Between the curves, in fact, the 600 Bavarian pay a tonnage not indifferent, with its 251.5 kg detected that are felt all, not so much in the maneuvers as between the curves in sequence, where the change of direction is physically demanding.

A whole other world TMAX, much less heavy, with a slightly lower center of gravity and a truly enviable rapidity of movement, are also allowed to share cycling less conservative. The suspension, with their calibrations incurred but less braking than the BMW, as well as giving a little help in the ups and downs, allow you to have a greater feeling with the scooter is in corner entry and on exit, where he earns good meters thanks to the excellent response gas: damn that bother see the tail of the TMAX away ...

The C-Sport recovers everything on the brakes, where most rigidity limits the load transfers and lets you squeeze in the bottom front discs, more powerful and modular. Usually all the scooters have a little front end "communicative" in the input curve, instead of the sporty BMW is able to offer a good feeling, which then also keeps in sharp bends. Well even the TMAX, but showed a greater tendency to sway in the rear when you force movements.

The test has come to an end and the result is that in the end, as often happens, there's a real winner: the two basic scooter you look like a lot, but the differences found in the guide make sure that everything depends on your personal taste . Sure, the TMAX is the TMAX.
 

JaimeC

New member
Every time I read a Google translation of a foreign article, I get a headache. That was no exception... :p
 

SteveADV

Active member
Hey, c'mon. Yah gotta love this line....

"Overcome the hesitation, the BMW on the obverse is a lippa, the difference in power (13.5 hp more) is so clear that while svernici the TMAX can also berti coffee."

I always suspected my GT was a lippa. And the TMax has an onboard coffeemaker?! Cool!:D
 

Skutorr

Active member
Come ON, it's not THAT hard to read! I'll give a quick synopsis:

1.) C600 has more goodies and accessories; score 1 for the C600.
2.) Fit and finish and design aesthetics; score 1 for the Tmax.
3.) 11/2 mile race to finish line, BMW out-powers the Tmax; score 1 for the C600.
4.) Off the line, the Tmax smokes the C600 (maybe not with a HIT clutch...); score 1 for the Tmax.
5.) In the twisties, the C600 is heavier, more work and less-responsive; score 1 for the Tmax.
6.) BMW brakes and braking response better and more balanced; score 1 for the C600.

They conclude that it all comes down to personal style, taste and usage; they are both winners!:cool:
 

Edumakated

New member
That is about what I got out of the comparison and others I've read. I'm curious as to how different the clutch setup is on the t-max versus the BMW.
 

Skutorr

Active member
The Tmax clutch is a WET clutch, just like on regular motorcycles. It's in an oil bath with the same oil as the engine. It is cooled by the oil, and is not a brake shoe style DRY clutch like in almost all scooters, but is a multi-plate wet style, with much more surface area.

The only other "scooters" that invested in a wet clutch are the Burgman 650 and the relatively new Piaggio 350 engine.

The other BIG Maxis with problematic dry clutches are the Aprilia SRV 850 and the Honda Silverwing 600. Both of them have Dr. Pulley HIT clutch replacements available, as low-speed stop and start city driving overheats and glazes their clutches, just like with the BMW scoots, due to the clutch's inboard mounting location. It's worse on the Aprilia, though.

The KYMCO MyRoad 700's dry clutch is NOT an inboard-mounted dry clutch, but is outboard-mounted, like on every single cylinder scoot made (Except the Piaggio 350s). It doesn't overheat and glaze to the extent of the inboard-style clutches, but they are still replacing them in Taiwan with Dr. Pulley HIT clutches.

To keep the scoot from being too wide on the twin maxis, designers move the clutches inboard. Yamaha opted to spend the extra $ on a wet design for the Tmax, and KYMCO just said "what the hell, it'll just be FAT...":mad:
 

Edumakated

New member
The Tmax clutch is a WET clutch, just like on regular motorcycles. It's in an oil bath with the same oil as the engine. It is cooled by the oil, and is not a brake shoe style DRY clutch like in almost all scooters, but is a multi-plate wet style, with much more surface area.

The only other "scooters" that invested in a wet clutch are the Burgman 650 and the relatively new Piaggio 350 engine.

The other BIG Maxis with problematic dry clutches are the Aprilia SRV 850 and the Honda Silverwing 600. Both of them have Dr. Pulley HIT clutch replacements available, as low-speed stop and start city driving overheats and glazes their clutches, just like with the BMW scoots, due to the clutch's inboard mounting location. It's worse on the Aprilia, though.

The KYMCO MyRoad 700's dry clutch is NOT an inboard-mounted dry clutch, but is outboard-mounted, like on every single cylinder scoot made (Except the Piaggio 350s). It doesn't overheat and glaze to the extent of the inboard-style clutches, but they are still replacing them in Taiwan with Dr. Pulley HIT clutches.

To keep the scoot from being too wide on the twin maxis, designers move the clutches inboard. Yamaha opted to spend the extra $ on a wet design for the Tmax, and KYMCO just said "what the hell, it'll just be FAT...":mad:

Gotcha. The slight delay at take off is the one complaint I have about the c600. It pulls pretty hard once the clutch engages but it does make it feel sluggish for a 650cc bike at start.
 

JaimeC

New member
Yamaha clutches also apparently don't get along well with Amsoil. LOTS of posts over on the TMAX forum advising people to NOT use Amsoil, because the clutch will start slipping badly. I assumed the same was true for the Beemers till someone here pointed out that the BMWs use a dry clutch and don't have that issue.
 

exavid

Member
As usual with wet or dry clutches there's no free lunch. One big advantage with a dry clutch is that debris which always comes from clutches isn't in the crankcase to cause problems if it gets somewhere it shouldn't instead of being caught by the filter. One other advantage is that a dry clutch is usually easier to change than a wet clutch which requires opening up the engine in most cases. I'd sure rather change the clutch on my K bike than on my previous Goldwings. One good thing about a variator is that you can change it's operating points with a change of rollers or sliders. You can shift the max power point for more rapid acceleration or for better fuel economy. If you want to look at a complicated scooter transmission the Burgman 650 has a humdinger. Lots of stuff in it's tranny including an electric motor and plastic gears moving the variator instead of fly weights. When those fail, and some have, the rumored cost of repair is in the neighborhood of $3000. It's a great bike as long as all goes well, but more difficult to work on than the other maxis.
If beating a Tmax is what you're after it wouldn't take much to make a 600 come off the line a lot quicker. Maybe not dead stock but fairly inexpensively if that's what one is after. In handling light weight is hard to overcome but power can often equalize the situation. Remember weight isn't the whole story, the power to weight ratio is where the rubber meets the road and with 15hp more the 600 ought to have a better ratio. The 600 has better than a 9:1 ratio. That's better than a lot of light aircraft.
 

Skutorr

Active member
If beating a Tmax is what you're after it wouldn't take much to make a 600 come off the line a lot quicker. Maybe not dead stock but fairly inexpensively if that's what one is after. In handling light weight is hard to overcome but power can often equalize the situation. Remember weight isn't the whole story, the power to weight ratio is where the rubber meets the road and with 15hp more the 600 ought to have a better ratio. The 600 has better than a 9:1 ratio. That's better than a lot of light aircraft.

Put on a HIT Clutch (you'll have to get one eventually...) and Dr. Pulley Sliders/Sliding Pieces and...Goodbye Tmax!:cool:
 
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