PowerCommnader V, auto tune and Malossi Multivar MHR 2000 variator

[vazbro]

Hello everybody
I just purchased and installed the Powercommander V. I also purchased the powercommander autotune and Malossi MHR 2000 varistor.
Installing the power commander was very easy but the autotune is little more involved. I will install it when I get my arrow straight pipe but I don't know how to install the variator.
It comes with two sets of rollers. 8 x 24gr and 8x 22gr rollers.
The manual suggest the following:
Tourist: install all 24gr rollers
Sport: install the 22gr and 24gr rollers (4 of each)
Race: install all 22gr rollers (suggested with aftermarket exhaust)

Now I need to figure out how to install the variator as there is no shop manual for the C650GT. The install would have been easier on C600 sport because of lack of plastics around the transmission area.
Anyway, does anybody know how to install the varistor? Also, what wouldbe the drawback of installing all 22gr rollers without the exhaust?

I have also purchased the white spring Malossi sells but that is also recommended to use with exhaust.

Here are some pics:

 

[Xian Forbes]

Where are you located. If your in Northern California I know of a shop with extensive experience in tuning CVT scooters and I'm sure would be willing to install your variator. He also has performed dyno runs on his maxi scooter with all sorts of different weights installed. I've bent his ear on just how a scooter behaves with the different weights in the variator and all I could pass on is that with half of the stock weights replaced with lighter weights gave the best overall performance as tested. I'd have to ask him for the specific data sheets and drag run times to say anything more than that.

-Christian

 

[vazbro]

Hi Christian,
Thanks for your the info. Yes, I live in NorCal, SF Bay Area. Where is that shop? I like to do things myself but I don't mind having shop do it either. This way it will be one shot deal vs. I experimenting on different weight.

 

[YAM@uro]

Hi Vazbro. For the vario installation...look here (registration required..) Connexion
I have installed the Malossi MHR vario on my C600 with all 24 gr. rollers, white sping and Dr. Pulley Hit Clutch.
if you have any questions I'm here.-

 

[vazbro]

Hi Vazbro. For the vario installation...look here (registration required..) Connexion
I have installed the Malossi MHR vario on my C600 with all 24 gr. rollers, white sping and Dr. Pulley Hit Clutch.
if you have any questions I'm here.-

View attachment 133

Thanks YAM@uro.
I just signed up for scootmania website. I had a little issue since I don't know French but I was able to handle it. I am not waiting for an administrator to authorize my account.
So, how is the bike working with the 24 gr rollers and the white spring? I was interested about the Dr. Pulley clutch too.
Also, what do you think about installing all 22gr or 24/22 gr mix?
Thanks again

 

[Xian Forbes]

Try, Battlescooter.com in Santa Clara 408-734-2677. They are near Great America. Jason who owns the shop is a solid guy and his rates are very reasonable. He has seen mine and I'm certain would be interested in helping you out. I thought, based on your parts list, that we had met at CalMoto one afternoon, you've got the white GT?? There are some subtleties with installing a variator that I'm aware of. The rollers need to be placed in a certain way so that they don't come apart, based on the metal insides and the plastic outsides, I forget just which way they need to go. I have also seen guys over torque the variator nut or have the belt placed incorrectly which places stress on the variator and could damage the threads on the crank...something I would not have thought of as all my wrenching experience is with geared scooters. Hope any of this helps...I like to do things for myself too, but sometimes I also see value in having someone who has done it a few hundred times tackle the job.

Cheers,
Christian

 

[Xian Forbes]

As far as the question of what weights to use..Jason at battlescooter has real world data that Im sure he would share. If I remember he had a Suzuki maxi that he used as a commuter and a test bed. Lighter weights gave a higher top end speed but took that performance from the "off the line" quickness. He found a combination of the two weights gave a quick launch and would allow the bike to achieve higher top speeds. Something to do with centrifugal mechanics that I've not spent a ton of time understanding. Considering our bikes already do well over 100pmh...how fast are you wanting to go vs. how quickly do you want to get to that speed.

 

[vazbro]

Try, Battlescooter.com in Santa Clara 408-734-2677. They are near Great America. Jason who owns the shop is a solid guy and his rates are very reasonable. He has seen mine and I'm certain would be interested in helping you out. I thought, based on your parts list, that we had met at CalMoto one afternoon, you've got the white GT?? There are some subtleties with installing a variator that I'm aware of. The rollers need to be placed in a certain way so that they don't come apart, based on the metal insides and the plastic outsides, I forget just which way they need to go. I have also seen guys over torque the variator nut or have the belt placed incorrectly which places stress on the variator and could damage the threads on the crank...something I would not have thought of as all my wrenching experience is with geared scooters. Hope any of this helps...I like to do things for myself too, but sometimes I also see value in having someone who has done it a few hundred times tackle the job.

Cheers,
Christian

Try, Battlescooter.com in Santa Clara 408-734-2677. They are near Great America. Jason who owns the shop is a solid guy and his rates are very reasonable. He has seen mine and I'm certain would be interested in helping you out. I thought, based on your parts list, that we had met at CalMoto one afternoon, you've got the white GT?? There are some subtleties with installing a variator that I'm aware of. The rollers need to be placed in a certain way so that they don't come apart, based on the metal insides and the plastic outsides, I forget just which way they need to go. I have also seen guys over torque the variator nut or have the belt placed incorrectly which places stress on the variator and could damage the threads on the crank...something I would not have thought of as all my wrenching experience is with geared scooters. Hope any of this helps...I like to do things for myself too, but sometimes I also see value in having someone who has done it a few hundred times tackle the job.

Cheers,
Christian

Hi Christian,
Thanks for your input. Yes, that was I with the white GT. It is actually back into the original color as I am waiting for the 3M wrap samples to arrive to decide on a new color.
You are right. I better have Jason do it as long as the cost is not too high. I usually look at the DIYs and do it myself. I have done way more involved work to my cars and bikes but I am very new to scooters so I think I let Jason do it. I am planning to get the Arrow collector so I'll do that one myself when I get it.

 

[vazbro]

As far as the question of what weights to use..Jason at battlescooter has real world data that Im sure he would share. If I remember he had a Suzuki maxi that he used as a commuter and a test bed. Lighter weights gave a higher top end speed but took that performance from the "off the line" quickness. He found a combination of the two weights gave a quick launch and would allow the bike to achieve higher top speeds. Something to do with centrifugal mechanics that I've not spent a ton of time understanding. Considering our bikes already do well over 100pmh...how fast are you wanting to go vs. how quickly do you want to get to that speed.

Yes, I don't understand the CVT that well either so I will ask Jason and take his advise on the weight of the rollers.
What I want is the quickness and power/response at low to mid RPMs. That is where I spent most of the riding.

 

[vazbro]

Here is link to some good info about the CVTs.

http://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-cvt-principles-how-it-works-how-to-improve-it-

 

[YAM@uro]

I have mounted all 24 gr. rollers and the white spring. The Hit Clutch Pulley is installed with 27 kg. clutch springs and 20 kg. pillows springs. In this configuration, the 22 grams rollers were rising too rev up the engine at the start. I also tried the mixed configuration (22-24) but I preferred the 24 grams solution. The clutch is still the big deal about this bike. Overheats lot and is not ready in the attack and as strong as that of the T MAX (multiple plate centrifugal clutch in oil).
P.S. This is my C600 wrapped in camouflage matt black..




Ci@o

 

[vazbro]

I have mounted all 24 gr. rollers and the white spring. The Hit Clutch Pulley is installed with 27 kg. clutch springs and 20 kg. pillows springs. In this configuration, the 22 grams rollers were rising too rev up the engine at the start. I also tried the mixed configuration (22-24) but I preferred the 24 grams solution. The clutch is still the big deal about this bike. Overheats lot and is not ready in the attack and as strong as that of the T MAX (multiple plate centrifugal clutch in oil).
P.S. This is my C600 wrapped in camouflage matt black..
View attachment 134

View attachment 135

Ci@o

Wow, that is a cool looking C600!
I will be wrapping my scooter again soon. Today I got the sample books of all 3M colors in their 1080 car wrap so I need to make a decision. I may do the panels in Chrome color!
Nah, that's too flashy. I most likely will do it in matte blue, like C600 or maybe in brush black steel. I was also thinking carbon fiber but everybody does CF these days so no thanks!
We'll see.


Looks like I need to buy the clutch too. I haven't experienced any over heating issue despite my aggressive riding style but I don't have too much experience with scooters either, just motorcycles.

Is the Dr. Pulley HIT clutch is the only one out there?

Here are the colors I am considering.

Thanks again

 

[Doraemon]

I am waiting on my Malossi Variator, I hope it will come soon. I ordered from Italy, and have been using google translate to follow the Italian BMW scooter website. I can understand some, but if you get to the scooter shop in cali, I would be interested to hear the results. While I only have a dyno shop at my disposal, hence my PC V dynotuned to 51whp, and would have to make changes to the variator and try several time to see the results. My Dyno shop mentioned that the auto tune setups may not react fast enough to get the most power out. for my self, I am using advantage of the 2 map setup of the PC V. I have a half tuned map from Dynojet(came stock with the unit) and then a full tune form my dyno tuning.

Hope to hear from you soon. you can see my bike on Youtube search Kitaronogegege I have several videos highspeed on large flat plain and a place called rattlesnake grade in eastern washington. I also have several videos from when I lived in Thailand and taped riding in the bangkok traffic. enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql_DX88Qrbs
I am currently running cat free with Apoc pipe and PC V, with 51whp and 44Ftlbs torque, I have been to 108mph by GPS, but not over........yet!!

hope to hear form you soon

 

[vazbro]

My Arrow pipe just arrives from Italy. I am planning to install it this Friday, along with the Malossi vatiator.

 

[vazbro]

I have mounted all 24 gr. rollers and the white spring. The Hit Clutch Pulley is installed with 27 kg. clutch springs and 20 kg. pillows springs. In this configuration, the 22 grams rollers were rising too rev up the engine at the start. I also tried the mixed configuration (22-24) but I preferred the 24 grams solution. The clutch is still the big deal about this bike. Overheats lot and is not ready in the attack and as strong as that of the T MAX (multiple plate centrifugal clutch in oil).
P.S. This is my C600 wrapped in camouflage matt black..
View attachment 134

View attachment 135

Ci@o

I just ordered the HIT clutch! I will update the forum when I received and installed it.

 

[Doraemon]

I ordered one last week and should arrive shortly as well. I have the malossi variator comming as well, however I am thinking of getting the new CVT f4r....

 

[vazbro]

I ordered one last week and should arrive shortly as well. I have the malossi variator comming as well, however I am thinking of getting the new CVT f4r....[/QUOT

 

[vazbro]

I ordered one last week and should arrive shortly as well. I have the malossi variator comming as well, however I am thinking of getting the new CVT f4r....

Yeah, I heard good things about the F4r

 

[vazbro]

Dr. Pulley HIT just arrived!! Can't wait to install it. I am just wondering if I can install it without the special tool.
Also, bunch of springs came with it too. Now I need to see which ones to install based on my riding style!

 

[Doraemon]

How long did it take to get? I am going on one month now....

On the Italian website they recommended Red 27kg on the clutch and 16kg on the pillow....