2025 Models in the USA? (and maybe a slight rant...)

[moto-cavallo]

Hey There - New to the forum, and thanks in advance to all who've posted as I've gotten a lot of great information reading through all these posts over a number of weeks. One question I have is when does BMW Motorrad typically bring in the new models here in the US? I'm interest in the C400GT, and wanted to see the new 'exclusive' diamond white model in person. It looks like it's out already overseas, but nothing noted anywhere for when we can expect the 2025s here. Is this typical? Are the new models released overseas first for a few months before here?

Now for the rant...

Speaking of - I wish we had more options for scooters here in the USA. It's criminal the lack of choices. I love the design of the C400GT, but the price-point is absurd compared to the pricing of other scooters that are available in Europe - like the Honda Forzas, Zontes 350, Honda SH models, etc. I think the Zontes 350 has everything the C400Gt has but cost ~40% less.

The C400GT is not, as we all know, a 400cc - rounding up is not unusual in a name, but rounding up by 50cc in the name seems a bit much - and I wish they'd just make it a 400cc to be a direct competitor to the Burgman. The no cruise control, no parking brake, and no TPMS are hard pills to swallow for a scooter at this price point. And I'm a bit annoyed they didn't even seem to try in the new updated 2025 model... a hand lever to adjust windshield height? Not even electric? A floor light and tapes? Smh... Surely they must be hearing what customers have been asking for a few years now?

Again I love the design, and I really do think it's the 'best-looking', appears well-built, but I wish either BMW wasn't marking up for their badge on a Loncin - OR, they level up on some of these missing items to better justify the price tag.

Where I live, northern NJ, 20-25 mins outside of manhattan, there's not a whole lot of choices beside Vespa 300s (not really practical for around here with the tiny wheels), and the Burgman - not crazy about the design and isn't much less around here than the C400GT anyway. There's a Kymco dealer that has the 2023 AK 550, but it's about a 45-50 mins trip, and I worry about parts/service close to home. Whereas I feel limited in that right by me I do have the BMW Motorrad 15 mins away from me, where I know I can get parts and service.

Ok, rant over.

 

[wspollack]

@moto-cavallo :

I've posted very similar rants. Perhaps you've even read some of mine. To elaborate on some of your points:

TPMS:

I think this sticks in my craw the most.

For one thing, the currently sold, and newer, CE-04 has this.

For another, some of the now-defunct C 600 / C 650 had this.

For a third, most -- or perhaps even all -- of BMW's other current models have TPMS as standard equipment or as an option.

BUT MOST OF ALL, I get really upset that the sideways "spoke" location of the Schrader valves precludes mounting your own external sensor on the front wheel (I have a FOBO on the rear wheel). Why BMW couldn't just have the valve stems in the center of the rims -- like every other manufacturer -- is beyond me, and just dumb. With a normal location, if you want the convenience of sideways valves, you could always mount angled replacements yourself (which is what I did on a number of bikes). (I am still tempted to just drill my own hole, but to complicate matters the rims are not completely flat in the middle, possibly making sealing an issue.)

'25 Changes:

Really, "puddle" lights and stripes? That's ridiculous.

The only improvements I see are larger cubbies, a larger optional top case, and I gather some improvement to the layout of the underseat storage.

Zontes:

Meanwhile, Zontes, et al., keep making changes. Have you checked out the new "368" series from Zontes? Bigger engine, with more HP. Underseat storage for two large full-face helmets. TPMS. Electrically adjustable windscreen. Parking brake (looks like about a $2 add-on). And so on and so on.

About the only ways the C 400 GT might be better are braking (two front discs vs. one), and some items that can't really be evaluated from specs alone, such as suspension quality, engine get-up-and-go and buzziness, and -- my favorite aspect of the C 400 GT -- handling (how planted, lean-angle clearance, and suchlike).

Yeah, it's a shame that we in the USA don't get those bikes. But as manufacturers are out to make money, I gather that it's mostly a supply-and-demand issue, along with the cost of setting up dealerships and stocking bikes and parts, and the cost of getting EPA certifications for the various engines. All of that is not cheap, and I guess most scooter manufacturers have decided that it's not cost-effective to set up shop here (even if there would be a certain build-it-and-they-will-come effect).

Cruise Control:

Neither Zontes nor Voge seem to be interested in cruise control. On the other hand, I believe one variant of the T-MAX and one variant of the AK 550 do have cruise.

I found that sufficiently desirable that I added an MC Cruise to a Burgman 650 in 2007, and had factory cruise when I bought my Victory Cross Country Tour in 2012.

Kymco AK550:

I don't think that's very far, your distance to a Kymco dealer with one, but that's me. Of course, that bike is heavier, but with more power, than a C 400 GT.

If you're really interested in that bike -- and particularly the maintenance aspects, such as parts availability and the actual procedures of oil changes and belt replacement -- I can strongly recommend the many posts of a former Burgman 650 and current AK550 owner over on the BurgmanUSA forum. Here's a URL that will find those threads for you: https://www.burgmanusa.com/search/152687/?q=kymco&t=post&c[users]=rjs987&o=relevance&g=1

He bought the 550 a couple of years ago, from a dealer, as I recall, that was 400 or 500 miles away. Since he does his own maintenance, I don't believe he's been back. He seems very pleased with the Kymco, and from my experience reading his posts over the years I don't believe he's a bullshitter in any way.

Diamond White:

I'm not sure on this, but I do think that the new models show up in Europe before they make an appearance in the USA. My guess is that it's just a supply-and-demand issue. You don't actually see very many C 400 GTs, of any color or, ahem, stripe, being sold over here. Good luck on finding one in a showroom.

BMW Listens?

Regarding your comment, "Surely they must be hearing what customers have been asking for a few years now?", I have my doubts.

I certainly think that they SHOULD be listening, given how competition in that 400 range -- the almost T-MAX/Kymco/Others? maxi-level -- is heating up, with entries from Zontes, Voge, Honda, and others. And those other players aren't standing still, either, as I've noted with, say, Zontes.

And those 400-size players are all significantly less expensive than the C 400 GT/X.

And so BMW counters with puddle lights?! I'm pretty sure that absolutely no one asked for those.

Hence, my skepticism that BMW hears or listens to any of us. If I ran the zoo, I'd be looking to fire whoever's supposed to be marketing the C 400s ... if anyone's actually supposed to be doing that.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

 

[moto-cavallo]

@moto-cavallo :

I've posted very similar rants. Perhaps you've even read some of mine. To elaborate on some of your points:

TPMS:

I think this sticks in my craw the most.

For one thing, the currently sold, and newer, CE-04 has this.

For another, some of the now-defunct C 600 / C 650 had this.

For a third, most -- or perhaps even all -- of BMW's other current models have TPMS as standard equipment or as an option.

BUT MOST OF ALL, I get really upset that the sideways "spoke" location of the Schrader valves precludes mounting your own external sensor on the front wheel (I have a FOBO on the rear wheel). Why BMW couldn't just have the valve stems in the center of the rims -- like every other manufacturer -- is beyond me, and just dumb. With a normal location, if you want the convenience of sideways valves, you could always mount angled replacements yourself (which is what I did on a number of bikes). (I am still tempted to just drill my own hole, but to complicate matters the rims are not completely flat in the middle, possibly making sealing an issue.)

'25 Changes:

Really, "puddle" lights and stripes? That's ridiculous.

The only improvements I see are larger cubbies, a larger optional top case, and I gather some improvement to the layout of the underseat storage.

Zontes:

Meanwhile, Zontes, et al., keep making changes. Have you checked out the new "368" series from Zontes? Bigger engine, with more HP. Underseat storage for two large full-face helmets. TPMS. Electrically adjustable windscreen. Parking brake (looks like about a $2 add-on). And so on and so on.

About the only ways the C 400 GT might be better are braking (two front discs vs. one), and some items that can't really be evaluated from specs alone, such as suspension quality, engine get-up-and-go and buzziness, and -- my favorite aspect of the C 400 GT -- handling (how planted, lean-angle clearance, and suchlike).

Yeah, it's a shame that we in the USA don't get those bikes. But as manufacturers are out to make money, I gather that it's mostly a supply-and-demand issue, along with the cost of setting up dealerships and stocking bikes and parts, and the cost of getting EPA certifications for the various engines. All of that is not cheap, and I guess most scooter manufacturers have decided that it's not cost-effective to set up shop here (even if there would be a certain build-it-and-they-will-come effect).

Cruise Control:

Neither Zontes nor Voge seem to be interested in cruise control. On the other hand, I believe one variant of the T-MAX and one variant of the AK 550 do have cruise.

I found that sufficiently desirable that I added an MC Cruise to a Burgman 650 in 2007, and had factory cruise when I bought my Victory Cross Country Tour in 2012.

Kymco AK550:

I don't think that's very far, your distance to a Kymco dealer with one, but that's me. Of course, that bike is heavier, but with more power, than a C 400 GT.

If you're really interested in that bike -- and particularly the maintenance aspects, such as parts availability and the actual procedures of oil changes and belt replacement -- I can strongly recommend the many posts of a former Burgman 650 and current AK550 owner over on the BurgmanUSA forum. Here's a URL that will find those threads for you: https://www.burgmanusa.com/search/152687/?q=kymco&t=post&c[users]=rjs987&o=relevance&g=1

He bought the 550 a couple of years ago, from a dealer, as I recall, that was 400 or 500 miles away. Since he does his own maintenance, I don't believe he's been back. He seems very pleased with the Kymco, and from my experience reading his posts over the years I don't believe he's a bullshitter in any way.

Diamond White:

I'm not sure on this, but I do think that the new models show up in Europe before they make an appearance in the USA. My guess is that it's just a supply-and-demand issue. You don't actually see very many C 400 GTs, of any color or, ahem, stripe, being sold over here. Good luck on finding one in a showroom.

BMW Listens?

Regarding your comment, "Surely they must be hearing what customers have been asking for a few years now?", I have my doubts.

I certainly think that they SHOULD be listening, given how competition in that 400 range -- the almost T-MAX/Kymco/Others? maxi-level -- is heating up, with entries from Zontes, Voge, Honda, and others. And those other players aren't standing still, either, as I've noted with, say, Zontes.

And those 400-size players are all significantly less expensive than the C 400 GT/X.

And so BMW counters with puddle lights?! I'm pretty sure that absolutely no one asked for those.

Hence, my skepticism that BMW hears or listens to any of us. If I ran the zoo, I'd be looking to fire whoever's supposed to be marketing the C 400s ... if anyone's actually supposed to be doing that.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

Hey Bill - Sorry it's taken a second to reply back but it's been hectic lately, hoping things slow down for the holidays now that they're here. Thanks for your reply, and I've read tons of your posts on here as they are very informative and I thoroughly enjoy reading your contributions - i'm a big fan!

I couldn't agree more on your points above. Seeing the 'release' of the latest 2025 edition of the C 400 GT was a bit of a let down as I was hoping there would be some real material changes in ways other than puddle lights, manual windshield adjustment, etc.

I'm watching all our european friends enjoying the Honda Forzas, Zontes editions, etc., and we have such limited pickings here, it would be nice to have seen BMW scoots catch up to what's been going on overseas. I agree with your comment w/r/t the marketing - or lack thereof. It seems that the USA scooter market in general is disregarded - and maybe for good reason, as I understand that 'money talks', and in their eyes, as far as sales go maybe they are sub par - but again, where's the marketing? There has been no doubt that in NYC, Jersey City, Hoboken, that scooters are becoming more and more popular in the last 4-5 years. It is significant the amount of scooters on the road in the NYC metro area compared to even 3 years ago, and that's with essentially zero marketing. But people are really starting to see the scooter as a great tool to commute, get around, and with cheaper insurance and fuel costs it's becoming a no-brainer for folks out there. I think now is a better time than ever to invest in the market here rather than give slim rations of choice.

But, to not have TPMS in a $10k scooter in 2024(2025) is really absurd.

 

[mgg]

I read most of the posts on this forum. I started looking at the Kymco AK550 after reading some posts. They have a premium version in Europe that has cruise control. And while I do not think it looks as good as the BMW, if they sold the premium here in the USA, I would give it a serious look and probably buy one. It checks all my boxes. weight, electronic windshield, heated grips, TPMS, ABS tracktion contrl, power, etc...... But I don't want to invest in another scooter with out cruise. That AK engine does look complicated as well. All in all pretty happy with the 400gt. But always looking for the perfect solution.

 

[wspollack]

I read most of the posts on this forum. I started looking at the Kymco AK550 after reading some posts. They have a premium version in Europe that has cruise control. And while I do not think it looks as good as the BMW, if they sold the premium here in the USA, I would give it a serious look and probably buy one. It checks all my boxes. weight, electronic windshield, heated grips, TPMS, ABS tracktion contrl, power, etc...... But I don't want to invest in another scooter with out cruise. That AK engine does look complicated as well. All in all pretty happy with the 400gt. But always looking for the perfect solution.

Curiously, Kymco's CV3 -- here in the USofA -- has cruise control standard. This is a properly leaning three-wheeler (as opposed to, say, Can-Am's Spyder and Ryker, which may be fun, but don't lean the "right" way). It is essentially an AK 550 -- the Premium version of that donor bike -- from the triple-tree on backwards:

2023 CV3 - Kymco USA

2023CV3 $11,999 MSRP* Adventure Touring In Style Discover a new journey of life with Kymco’s first 3-Wheel Scooter in cross-over style. THE LUXURY OF DISCOVERY It’s the Noodoe IOT navigation system that guides you on all of your adventures – whether you’re taking the back roads in a national...

kymcousa.com

Speaking of leaning three-wheelers:

I rented a Piaggio MP3 around the time they first came out, just to check them out. This was whilst on vacation in Wildwood, NJ, 2008:



Tootled around town, with my wife out back. Very handy in gravel parking lots. And, like the CV3, has a nice feature whereby you can lock the forks when coming to a stop, so you don't have to put a foot down.

Oh, and the latest version of the MP3 (with a much larger engine than the one I rented) is sold here ... and has cruise control:

Piaggio MP3

www.piaggio.com

In 2019, I rented a Yamaha Niken for a week in the Alps with Edelweiss:



That has a 900cc Triple for engine, moves out with authority, and I appreciated the extra contact patch. Oh, and it had cruise control, but I think I used it only once, for a few minutes. Unfortunately, it is very tall, top-heavy, and certainly does NOT have any tilt-lock: I dropped it -- twice -- myself. (And I don't think Yamaha is importing them here anymore.)

Just another option, especially for geezers like me, if I stay healthy-ish for a few more years.

 

[mgg]

Curiously, Kymco's CV3 -- here in the USofA -- has cruise control standard. This is a properly leaning three-wheeler (as opposed to, say, Can-Am's Spyder and Ryker, which may be fun, but don't lean the "right" way). It is essentially an AK 550 -- the Premium version of that donor bike -- from the triple-tree on backwards:

2023 CV3 - Kymco USA

2023CV3 $11,999 MSRP* Adventure Touring In Style Discover a new journey of life with Kymco’s first 3-Wheel Scooter in cross-over style. THE LUXURY OF DISCOVERY It’s the Noodoe IOT navigation system that guides you on all of your adventures – whether you’re taking the back roads in a national...

kymcousa.com

Speaking of leaning three-wheelers:

I rented a Piaggio MP3 around the time they first came out, just to check them out. This was whilst on vacation in Wildwood, NJ, 2008:

View attachment 5372

Tootled around town, with my wife out back. Very handy in gravel parking lots. And, like the CV3, has a nice feature whereby you can lock the forks when coming to a stop, so you don't have to put a foot down.

Oh, and the latest version of the MP3 (with a much larger engine than the one I rented) is sold here ... and has cruise control:

Piaggio MP3

www.piaggio.com

In 2019, I rented a Yamaha Niken for a week in the Alps with Edelweiss:

View attachment 5373

That has a 900cc Triple for engine, moves out with authority, and I appreciated the extra contact patch. Oh, and it had cruise control, but I think I used it only once, for a few minutes. Unfortunately, it is very tall, top-heavy, and certainly does NOT have any tilt-lock: I dropped it -- twice -- myself. (And I don't think Yamaha is importing them here anymore.)

Just another option, especially for geezers like me, if I stay healthy-ish for a few more years.

I looked at the Kymco CV3 when I was looking at the AK550. I realized they were similar. I was almost ready to get a three wheeler when I purchased the C 400gt. But I wanted to stay on 2 wheels as long as possible. One of these two may be my three wheel option if that time comes as they are closer to a 2 wheeler with their lean.

 

[moto-cavallo]

I read most of the posts on this forum. I started looking at the Kymco AK550 after reading some posts. They have a premium version in Europe that has cruise control. And while I do not think it looks as good as the BMW, if they sold the premium here in the USA, I would give it a serious look and probably buy one. It checks all my boxes. weight, electronic windshield, heated grips, TPMS, ABS tracktion contrl, power, etc...... But I don't want to invest in another scooter with out cruise. That AK engine does look complicated as well. All in all pretty happy with the 400gt. But always looking for the perfect solution.

I know what you mean - it may sound a bit lame, but what stops me in my tracks a bit with the AK, is I'm really not into the looks of it, the mirrors in a different time zone, and I do think the look is a bit on the ugly side - while with the c400gt's design, I really do think it's the best of the bunch within its class. But the AK does check a lot of the boxes, so I'm a bit torn - still. Also the c400gt has the slightly lower seat, which helps for my 5'6 self with a 29-inch inseam. I feel like I can live without the cruise, but its the lack of TPMS and price for a 350cc that particularly grinds my gears with a $10k c400gt. But at the same time, I tell myself, beggars can't be choosers.

 

[mgg]

I know what you mean - it may sound a bit lame, but what stops me in my tracks a bit with the AK, is I'm really not into the looks of it, the mirrors in a different time zone, and I do think the look is a bit on the ugly side - while with the c400gt's design, I really do think it's the best of the bunch within its class. But the AK does check a lot of the boxes, so I'm a bit torn - still. Also the c400gt has the slightly lower seat, which helps for my 5'6 self with a 29-inch inseam. I feel like I can live without the cruise, but its the lack of TPMS and price for a 350cc that particularly grinds my gears with a $10k c400gt. But at the same time, I tell myself, beggars can't be choosers.

Do you have a C 400gt or are you in the market. I already have the C 400gt. If I did not, I would probably buy the AK550 even though I don't think it looks quite as nice. I don't think its ugly. My number one interest it comfort! The AK550 has more power, its smoother, 2 cylinders, TPMS, the adjustable wind screen which I thought was a gimick until I got one. I did not know about the AK when I purchased my 400gt. I did contemplate the Piago BV 500. And when I first went looking it was for a Honda 750 ADV or a varient. They don't sell any of the ones I was interested in in the USA. I didn't think the 350 would be enough power. Really it is enough but just enough.

 

[moto-cavallo]

I don't have a scoot here yet - but have a rebel 500 - but I more enjoy being on the scooter, honestly. So no C 400gt yet, I almost bit the bullet and bought one in October, but have a lot going on at the time and now I figured I might as well wait a bit longer since I'm undecided. I've rode the C400gt in Italy in the summer, renting one when I was staying at my parents and really enjoyed it. I also rode my friend's Honda sh300i while I was there, which i enjoyed as well.

But I live in the USA, and in NJ, and I was originally thinking of the BV400, but the seat height and comfortability for me wasn't there - probably more to do with my inseam. Doable, but I felt more comfortable on the c400. So I'm more torn between the C400gt and AK550 - and my brain is telling me I get more bang for the buck with the AK, while I seem to lean toward the c400 - even though the price for what it is bothers me. But I have a BMW motorrad 15 mins from me, with service, which I really like - whereas I feel with the AK, the service aspect is an unknown and I'm not handy and would rely on the pros for maintenance service. I like your note about power - as here that is a big consideration when riding around here.

 

[mgg]

I rode a dirt bike once and it was too tall for me. My feet did not touch the ground. I did not want to ride it but my friends dared me. So I did and I crashed it. Having both feet touch the ground is a comfort issue for me. I usually only have one foot on the ground but with very little or no lean. I'm 5'10" with a 30.5 inch inseam. I had a Piaggio 500 back in 2010. I sold it to a guy who was about 5'6" and he could handle that thing like nothing. As I remember it he would hop off the seat when he came to a complete stop. There was plenty of room to stand in the low area. I would not be comfortable with that but he was. Decent scooter but not near as smooth as the 400. It was a big thumper. 500cc single lung. I guess there are making them a lot smoother now.

 

[wspollack]

I don't have a scoot here yet - but have a rebel 500 - but I more enjoy being on the scooter, honestly. So no C 400gt yet, I almost bit the bullet and bought one in October, but have a lot going on at the time and now I figured I might as well wait a bit longer since I'm undecided. I've rode the C400gt in Italy in the summer, renting one when I was staying at my parents and really enjoyed it. I also rode my friend's Honda sh300i while I was there, which i enjoyed as well.

But I live in the USA, and in NJ, and I was originally thinking of the BV400, but the seat height and comfortability for me wasn't there - probably more to do with my inseam. Doable, but I felt more comfortable on the c400. So I'm more torn between the C400gt and AK550 - and my brain is telling me I get more bang for the buck with the AK, while I seem to lean toward the c400 - even though the price for what it is bothers me. But I have a BMW motorrad 15 mins from me, with service, which I really like - whereas I feel with the AK, the service aspect is an unknown and I'm not handy and would rely on the pros for maintenance service. I like your note about power - as here that is a big consideration when riding around here.

Yep, you have a tough decision. Kind of same as mine: had I been able to find a Kymco dealer with an AK 550 in a showroom -- so I could sit on one -- AND had my wife not liked the accommodations of the C 400 X so much, the one we toured on, I'd probably be on a Kymco forum now. Better deal for the money, IMO, checks a lot of boxes, etc.

But at least the handling of the C 400 GT is, IMO, absolutely superb. And the brakes are very good, and I like the looks of the bike.

I loved the power comment from @mgg : "Really it is enough but just enough."

Regarding that, when I rode from Albany to Asheville this past May/June, I did a lot of interstate highways, either with 65 or 70 speed limits:

- Days 1 and 2 down (with a detour in the middle of the second day, to ride the Back of the Dragon in VA).
- Day 3 (NC state roads, and the Tail of the Dragon and the Cherohala Skyway, and interstates).
- Days 7 and 8 back up.

Here are the speed graphs of those days:











You can see that I was moving out on the interstates. In truth, if I had a more powerful bike -- and I speak from experience, as I've done this family visit on a couple of 650 Burgman, a Valkyrie Interstate, a Victory Cross Country Tour, and a BMW R 850 R -- I wouldn't be going any faster. I mean, I do try to avoid speeding tickets. Hence, yeah, the power is "just enough."

By contrast, my Meteor 350 does NOT make enough power (20HP) nor have the top speed (72) for this trip. At least not via interstate highways.

 

[moto-cavallo]

Yep, you have a tough decision. Kind of same as mine: had I been able to find a Kymco dealer with an AK 550 in a showroom -- so I could sit on one -- AND had my wife not liked the accommodations of the C 400 X so much, the one we toured on, I'd probably be on a Kymco forum now. Better deal for the money, IMO, checks a lot of boxes, etc.

But at least the handling of the C 400 GT is, IMO, absolutely superb. And the brakes are very good, and I like the looks of the bike.

I loved the power comment from @mgg : "Really it is enough but just enough."

Regarding that, when I rode from Albany to Asheville this past May/June, I did a lot of interstate highways, either with 65 or 75 speed limits:

- Days 1 and 2 down (with a detour in the middle of the second day, to ride the Back of the Dragon in VA).
- Day 3 (NC state roads, and the Tail of the Dragon and the Cherohala Skyway, and interstates).
- Days 7 and 8 back up.

Here are the speed graphs of those days:




You can see that I was moving out on the interstates. In truth, if I had a more powerful bike -- and I speak from experience, as I've done this family visit on a couple of 650 Burgman, a Valkyrie Interstate, a Victory Cross Country Tour, and a BMW R 850 R -- I wouldn't be going any faster. I mean, I do try to avoid speeding tickets. Hence, yeah, the power is "just enough."

By contrast, my Meteor 350 does NOT make enough power (20HP) nor have the top speed (72) for this trip. At least not via interstate highways.

Those graphs are insightful and I know you've mentioned that you were able to do the highways speeds comfortably - and exactly right, appears it's enough power for what we need. I'm the same, where I really don't aim to be any kind of speed demon on the highways, even in my car, I don't go really beyond those speeds. And I remember in the summer the c400 having enough to overtake when needed with 'just enough', which I was impressed by. The handling was great, which is another reason why I don't think I've been able to get it out of my head. I think the AK is known for great handling as well, but I've yet to have sat on one. I might take a trip to the dealer in Long Island City in mid-winter and see if they have one in the showroom to sit on.

Another thing I like with the c400 is the 3 year warranty, as well. I really love the bike, its a beautiful design, well handles, great brakes, heated grips/seat, just the price-tag nags me - but again, beggars can't be choosers. The AK is only about $500 more at the LIC dealership, which is why i'm torn.

@mgg - I am similar, it's a comfort thing for me as well. I've definitely seen people hop off the seat on the BV400, and other higher seat scooters when overseas. With the BV400, I could comfortably one-foot it with very slight lean, but I would have to scoot-up considerably to the near-edge of the seat every time because of the seat shape being an odd shape and width. Could easily do it and live with it, and in my younger days probably wouldn't think twice, but nowadays I am about being planted well. lol.

 

[wspollack]

I made a mistake — now corrected — when I said “65 or 75”. I meant “65 or 70” speed limits.

 

[jcdanzer]

Just read that the 2025 will hitting the US in Q1 of 25. The upgrades while not perfect by any means (still no TPMS, CC, etc) do have some nice new amenities and safety features. However, I did just read that there is a speed limiter at 80mph....WHY??? So what little overtaking power the bike may have had has just been capped? I don't get that all and definitely ruins the appeal of the 2025 since I don't believe the 2024 or earlier models have a limiter at all. Bill, your thoughts please...

 

[mgg]

Just read that the 2025 will hitting the US in Q1 of 25. The upgrades while not perfect by any means (still no TPMS, CC, etc) do have some nice new amenities and safety features. However, I did just read that there is a speed limiter at 80mph....WHY??? So what little overtaking power the bike may have had has just been capped? I don't get that all and definitely ruins the appeal of the 2025 since I don't believe the 2024 or earlier models have a limiter at all. Bill, your thoughts please...

I'm not Bill but if they limit it to 80, that sucks. Mine is advertised to do 86 MPH and you can coax a little more. I really wish it would do at least 95. 105 is about perfect for me. That is what my Piaggio BV 500 would do and it was plenty of power for passing. I just don't pass anything going over 55 mph on this bike because it runs out of power at 75 mph and then just creaps up to 86/87.

 

[wspollack]

Just read that the 2025 will hitting the US in Q1 of 25. The upgrades while not perfect by any means (still no TPMS, CC, etc) do have some nice new amenities and safety features. However, I did just read that there is a speed limiter at 80mph....WHY??? So what little overtaking power the bike may have had has just been capped? I don't get that all and definitely ruins the appeal of the 2025 since I don't believe the 2024 or earlier models have a limiter at all. Bill, your thoughts please...

When I first read that 80mph figure a couple of days ago, in a kind of sloppily written and sloppily phrased piece at AdvRider (https://www.advrider.com/maximum-scooter-fun-bmw-c400-gt-returns-to-us/), I thought it was a typo. But just now, I looked at BMW's official page -- https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/m...section-a-unique-riding-experience-in-figures -- and sure enough, that's what corporate is saying, too:



Assuming BMW didn't make a mistake (and then AdvRider just passed it along), that definitely represents a change.

Here's what BMW says in the non-'25 owner's manual:


As 2022 drew to a close, I confirmed that BMW was being a little conservative (which is reasonable enough, as they wouldn't want to be sued for overstating speed, or HP, or any other specs). That is, the top speed, post-break-in service and mileage, is really 89mph. That was the case for my former '22 and my current '23, per a decent GPS:

Further, in a separate test, it seemed like there is some sort of speed limiter ... although it's possible that I'm wrong about that, because air resistance is proportional to the square of speed. In any case, when I did a looooong and fairly steeeep downhill test, WFO in two sections, the speed maxed out at about 92 and the tach maxed out at 8,800, which is certainly shy of the 9,400 listed in the owner's manual:

But those were all just tests on my part, just out of curiosity.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, however, you know those speed graphs of the five days of my trip to NC half a year ago? Here are the max stats per day in my log, left lean, right lean, and speed:

2024/05/28: -30.2, 26.6, 89.0
2024/05/29: -38.1, 35.9, 86.5
2024/05/30: -37.2, 39.0, 86.4
2024/06/03: -25.2, 23.4, 87.1
2024/06/04: -17.8, 28.1, 86.3

So, in the real world, if this is not some kind of typo promulgated throughout the Internet, I'd say that such a change -- a limit of 80 -- really sucks. That would be my opinion even if they're being conservative again, and the real top speed is, say, 83.

Maybe it's all my fault, for having an engine failure in my '22. (I wasn't being crazy that day, and it was half a year after those high-speed tests.) I mean, maybe they don't want the engine spinning that fast, even if they claim a 9,400 red line. If you go WFO accelerating at lower speeds, you quickly get the CVT to compensate: the bike will go faster, but the RPMs will eventually drop ... unless you're at the max speed.

I don't really know about that stuff, but if this 80 figure is true, well, that might be a show-stopper for me.

I think @mgg 's "Really it is enough but just enough" might not be true anymore. I mean, look at the speeds on my trip, when I wasn't testing anything, just riding along, often in the left lane, going with the flow, minding my own business.

I am very disappointed if that's really true ... and being on the corporate page, it probably is. Fuckingridiculous is what I really think.

 

[moto-cavallo]

Just read that the 2025 will hitting the US in Q1 of 25. The upgrades while not perfect by any means (still no TPMS, CC, etc) do have some nice new amenities and safety features. However, I did just read that there is a speed limiter at 80mph....WHY??? So what little overtaking power the bike may have had has just been capped? I don't get that all and definitely ruins the appeal of the 2025 since I don't believe the 2024 or earlier models have a limiter at all. Bill, your thoughts please...

Well... this sucks.

 

[mjnorris]

When I first read that 80mph figure a couple of days ago, in a kind of sloppily written and sloppily phrased piece at AdvRider (https://www.advrider.com/maximum-scooter-fun-bmw-c400-gt-returns-to-us/), I thought it was a typo. But just now, I looked at BMW's official page -- https://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/en/m...section-a-unique-riding-experience-in-figures -- and sure enough, that's what corporate is saying, too:

View attachment 5379

Assuming BMW didn't make a mistake (and then AdvRider just passed it along), that definitely represents a change.

Here's what BMW says in the non-'25 owner's manual:

View attachment 5380
As 2022 drew to a close, I confirmed that BMW was being a little conservative (which is reasonable enough, as they wouldn't want to be sued for overstating speed, or HP, or any other specs). That is, the top speed, post-break-in service and mileage, is really 89mph. That was the case for my former '22 and my current '23, per a decent GPS:

Further, in a separate test, it seemed like there is some sort of speed limiter ... although it's possible that I'm wrong about that, because air resistance is proportional to the square of speed. In any case, when I did a looooong and fairly steeeep downhill test, WFO in two sections, the speed maxed out at about 92 and the tach maxed out at 8,800, which is certainly shy of the 9,400 listed in the owner's manual:

But those were all just tests on my part, just out of curiosity.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, however, you know those speed graphs of the five days of my trip to NC half a year ago? Here are the max stats per day in my log, left lean, right lean, and speed:

2024/05/28: -30.2, 26.6, 89.0
2024/05/29: -38.1, 35.9, 86.5
2024/05/30: -37.2, 39.0, 86.4
2024/06/03: -25.2, 23.4, 87.1
2024/06/04: -17.8, 28.1, 86.3

So, in the real world, if this is not some kind of typo promulgated throughout the Internet, I'd say that such a change -- a limit of 80 -- really sucks. That would be my opinion even if they're being conservative again, and the real top speed is, say, 83.

Maybe it's all my fault, for having an engine failure in my '22. (I wasn't being crazy that day, and it was half a year after those high-speed tests.) I mean, maybe they don't want the engine spinning that fast, even if they claim a 9,400 red line. If you go WFO accelerating at lower speeds, you quickly get the CVT to compensate: the bike will go faster, but the RPMs will eventually drop ... unless you're at the max speed.

I don't really know about that stuff, but if this 80 figure is true, well, that might be a show-stopper for me.

I think @mgg 's "Really it is enough but just enough" might not be true anymore. I mean, look at the speeds on my trip, when I wasn't testing anything, just riding along, often in the left lane, going with the flow, minding my own business.

I am very disappointed if that's really true ... and being on the corporate page, it probably is. Fuckingridiculous is what I really think.

In regards to the speed limiting, check the speed rating on the tires. I don’t know what the 400s wear but my C650Gt is limited to 106 due to the weird size tires (supposedly only 3 bikes use this size) only being rated for 112mph. I don’t ride near that fast but was curious about the speed limiting on mine. It could be that your tires have a lower speed rating.

 

[wspollack]

In regards to the speed limiting, check the speed rating on the tires. I don’t know what the 400s wear but my C650Gt is limited to 106 due to the weird size tires (supposedly only 3 bikes use this size) only being rated for 112mph. I don’t ride near that fast but was curious about the speed limiting on mine. It could be that your tires have a lower speed rating.

The Pirellis that came stock on both my '22 and my '23 C 400 GT have front and rear speed ratings of S (112mph). This is also the case with the Michelin City Grip 2 tires that I had installed a few weeks ago (by Max BMW, Troy, NY) for the upcoming season.

So the C 400 GT, at least as sold in the USA, has had S-rated tires for the last three or four years. To me, that doesn't explain why BMW has decided to lower the listed, or governed, or limited, speed from 86mph to 80mph, unless they've decided to go with different tires on the '25 model (which I haven't read about anywhere). Have you read about any tire switch?

And me, I have no concerns going 89 for hours, or even a rare 91 or 92 (achieved once on a very long, very steep, downhill run -- see above videos) for a few minutes, on tires rated at 112.

Bottom line, IMO: dropping the bike's speed by 6 mph still doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[mgg]

I just watched this review of the Kymco AK 550i Premium and it said that the speed is regulated at 130 KPH which is a little over 80 MPH. After re-watching I discovered that is only when you are using the cruiz control. Other wise it will do 160 kph which is 99 mph. I also saw a review where they achived 119 mph or 192 kmp. So I assume there is no regulator and that is 119 mph. Again I do not think the Premium model is sold in the US.