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De Rated Power Question

CE04_IRL

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Nov 8, 2024
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Hi folks, I d appreciate some comments or feedback about an issue that has arisen with my CE04.

I am new to biking and decided to take undertake to ride a bike on turning fifty years of age, and all that. As I drive four wheeled electric vehicles, the CE04 was a contender, if somewhat slightly expensive.

Because I was a novice and because of the licencing laws in Ireland, I needed to get the bike in the derated form, to reduce the power for the A1 licence. It was my intention to undertake the training and tests to qualify for the licence appropriate to the nominal power of the bike (A2). This was to be the 'learning process'.

Now, this is probably to some degree my fault, but I do hold some blame towards the dealer here. During the ordering and purchasing process it was never once disclosed to me that the bike could not be returned to nominal power once derated. As I said, perhaps my fault for not asking, but the fact was never disclosed. To all you forum users – is this genuinely the case? Can the derated bike not be returned to nominal power?

According to the dealership, it can’t. Full stop. This is very disappointing. I’m not too pushed about the power output, per say, but my range is also reduced to approx 70 km (45ish miles). I have now also paid top dollar for a bike with lower power and reduced range. The dealership doesn’t want to know. BMW Ireland say it’s a issue between me and the dealership.

Any thoughts, comments or recommendations would be welcome.
 
What a cautionary tale!

My initial reaction is: I'd be furious if it hadn't been explained to me, that the scoot couldn't be "UN-derated" after derating it.

Because you note that you ordered the bike -- as opposed to, say, buying it from the showroom floor -- I wonder if derating it meant that the factory built it with fewer battery cells, or something like that. If that were the case, i.e., the factory had to make changes regarding the way it was built, then maybe it truly can't be restored to full power after it has left the factory.

I did a little searching on this, and couldn't find an answer.


At https://www.bmwmotorrad.com.sg/en/m...#/section-highlights-for-new-urban-aesthetics :

If you hold an A1 category driving licence, you can simply experience the riding pleasure of the BMW CE 04 in the derated variant generating a nominal capacity of 11 kW (15 hp). Our authorised BMW Motorrad Retailers are happy to explain all the details.


At https://topauto.co.za/news/87700/bm...ter-south-african-pricing-and-specifications/ :

Driving the new BMW scooter is an electric motor on the rear axle generating a maximum output of 31kW and 62Nm, which can optionally be derated to 23kW, allowing the CE 04 to accelerate from 0-50km/h in as little as 2.6 seconds (2.7 seconds with optional derating) and reach an electronically-limited top speed of 120km/h.

The drivetrain also provides three riding modes comprising Eco, Rain, and Road, as well as an electronic reverser.

The 8.5kWh battery pack then supplies a maximum driving range of 130km, which is reduced to 6.2kWh and 100km with the optional derating.



So, no real help there, either.

Keep in mind that it seems to me that most users of this forum are from North America. No state in the USA has tiered licensing, and I don't believe Canada does, either (and I have no idea about Mexico). If knowledge is available on derating, my guess is that it will have to come from owners in the UK.

-- Is there any way you can return the bike to the dealership, i.e., have them buy it back? Are there any "fit for purpose" or warranty type of laws in Ireland that could cover returning a new motor vehicle within a certain period of time?

-- Alternatively, might the dealership give you a good trade-in price, as a gesture of good will, if you were to buy a different bike from them (perhaps a normal CE-04)?

-- Or, I guess you might try to sell the bike to some youngster in Ireland, who needs a derated bike. Perhaps a permanently derated CE-04 could be continuously resold to successive new riders.

-- Last, it's probably not worth the hassle or cost, but I suppose there's always the possibility of attempting to take the dealership to court, i.e., sue them. It certainly doesn't seem like this statement was true: "Our authorised BMW Motorrad Retailers are happy to explain all the details."

Good luck.
 
What a cautionary tale!

My initial reaction is: I'd be furious if it hadn't been explained to me, that the scoot couldn't be "UN-derated" after derating it.

Because you note that you ordered the bike -- as opposed to, say, buying it from the showroom floor -- I wonder if derating it meant that the factory built it with fewer battery cells, or something like that. If that were the case, i.e., the factory had to make changes regarding the way it was built, then maybe it truly can't be restored to full power after it has left the factory.

I did a little searching on this, and couldn't find an answer.


At https://www.bmwmotorrad.com.sg/en/m...#/section-highlights-for-new-urban-aesthetics :

If you hold an A1 category driving licence, you can simply experience the riding pleasure of the BMW CE 04 in the derated variant generating a nominal capacity of 11 kW (15 hp). Our authorised BMW Motorrad Retailers are happy to explain all the details.


At https://topauto.co.za/news/87700/bm...ter-south-african-pricing-and-specifications/ :

Driving the new BMW scooter is an electric motor on the rear axle generating a maximum output of 31kW and 62Nm, which can optionally be derated to 23kW, allowing the CE 04 to accelerate from 0-50km/h in as little as 2.6 seconds (2.7 seconds with optional derating) and reach an electronically-limited top speed of 120km/h.

The drivetrain also provides three riding modes comprising Eco, Rain, and Road, as well as an electronic reverser.

The 8.5kWh battery pack then supplies a maximum driving range of 130km, which is reduced to 6.2kWh and 100km with the optional derating.



So, no real help there, either.

Keep in mind that it seems to me that most users of this forum are from North America. No state in the USA has tiered licensing, and I don't believe Canada does, either (and I have no idea about Mexico). If knowledge is available on derating, my guess is that it will have to come from owners in the UK.

-- Is there any way you can return the bike to the dealership, i.e., have them buy it back? Are there any "fit for purpose" or warranty type of laws in Ireland that could cover returning a new motor vehicle within a certain period of time?

-- Alternatively, might the dealership give you a good trade-in price, as a gesture of good will, if you were to buy a different bike from them (perhaps a normal CE-04)?

-- Or, I guess you might try to sell the bike to some youngster in Ireland, who needs a derated bike. Perhaps a permanently derated CE-04 could be continuously resold to successive new riders.

-- Last, it's probably not worth the hassle or cost, but I suppose there's always the possibility of attempting to take the dealership to court, i.e., sue them. It certainly doesn't seem like this statement was true: "Our authorised BMW Motorrad Retailers are happy to explain all the details."

Good luck.
Thanks Bill,

Your reply is thoughtful and all points very much relevant.

I have more or less reached all these conclusions over the last few months up to and including seeking legal advice, which to be honest, wasn't very useful.

I'm well pizzed at BMW and the dealer and let them know as much, but they are not for turning. Their argument is, they delivered the bike as it was ordered. Tough.

There are only two BMW Motorrad dealers in the Republic and if pizz one of them off, then my options are diminished.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.
Brendan
 
I am guessing that’s how they reduced the power. Remove a few cells. How daft.

It would have been a lot more helpful if they had reduced the power in the software.
Also, you would have expected the range to have hopefully been increased to over 100 miles. Not reduced to 45 miles.

Maybe you could focus your complaint on the lack of range if you hadn’t been informed.
 
Going by the line:

The 8.5kWh battery pack then supplies a maximum driving range of 130km, which is reduced to 6.2kWh and 100km with the optional derating.

I suspect BMW uses software to reduce the battery capacity to 6.2kWh, as 'derating' seems to be related to a reduction in current and voltage to the electric motor to reduce the torque etc. on top of a reduction in the battery capacity. I am no electrical expert, though.

Note that some electric cars have had software updates which included a small increase in the battery capacity, or in other words, a reduction of the 'buffer' of the battery pack. I believe Audi did that in one of their e-tron EVs a few years ago, as did Jaguar for the iPace. The battery capacity in the CE 04 is 8.9kWh, with 8.5 and 6.2 being the useable amounts. The derated version may be carrying a 2.7kWh buffer that BMW could use via a software update if that is the case.

Then there is the weight of the CE 04. If a couple of cells were removed, it might lose a little bit of the 231kg that it weighs. I think the derated version of the CE 04 still weighs 231kg which if so, could mean it is still carrying the 8.9kWh battery and only using 6.2kWh of it. It's why I think the derating is most likely managed by software, but this is all a guess, and I could be very wrong.
 
Thanks for your post.
I'm not sure of the 'modus operandi' of BMWs derating for this bike. I was told in no uncertain terms its was permanent, by the dealer. You would think it was a software update/modification to bring it back to nominal power. This is where I have my gripe with BMW.
I have heard vague rumours that it can be changed, notably from continental Europe. But nothing has really come of it. The blurb states 6.2kWh and 100 km. My never derated CE-04 has never given more than 83 km max range (summertime Ireland). Lob 10km off that for the winter.
Great if it could be fixed by a software fix.

Regards B
 
The only vague excuse was that the power reduction was 'written in the ECU' No further information was forthcoming when I enquired. The relationship with the dealer was getting strained at this point.
 
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