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First modifications

BayAreaCelt

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Oct 9, 2024
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Have wunderlich hand guards, givi screen (had one before on my c650), Skene photon booster (yellow) and rear p3 ts lights, rear givi maxia 5, givi bmw scooter appropriate plate and plastic monolock plate, termoscud scooter blanket…

Think that’s it? I’m not up for mechanical changes to engine or drivetrain etc.

Honestly with the Bay Area weather the thing I’m most looking forwards to is the screen and hand guards..

Query for those who fitted the givi top boxes, how much weight could you load up onto the specific bmw plate, it’s alooominum so looks super sturdy..
 
Have wunderlich hand guards, givi screen (had one before on my c650), Skene photon booster (yellow) and rear p3 ts lights, rear givi maxia 5, givi bmw scooter appropriate plate and plastic monolock plate, termoscud scooter blanket…

Think that’s it? I’m not up for mechanical changes to engine or drivetrain etc.

Honestly with the Bay Area weather the thing I’m most looking forwards to is the screen and hand guards..

Query for those who fitted the givi top boxes, how much weight could you load up onto the specific bmw plate, it’s alooominum so looks super sturdy..
Hey, you and I have the same Skene setups, front and rear. They make good stuff, super-bright and with a very wide viewing angle.

Now you have me thinking about hand guards. I've never had them on any bike, but you seem to know what you're doing, so maybe I should follow your lead. I don't ride much when it's really cold -- that's about the same time here as when the leaves start to get on the road, daylight gets shorter, and they start to put salt on the roads -- but we've got to support Wunderlich USA, right?

And like you, I don't mess with drivetrains (especially given my warranty claim last year).
 
Hey, you and I have the same Skene setups, front and rear. They make good stuff, super-bright and with a very wide viewing angle.

Now you have me thinking about hand guards. I've never had them on any bike, but you seem to know what you're doing, so maybe I should follow your lead. I don't ride much when it's really cold -- that's about the same time here as when the leaves start to get on the road, daylight gets shorter, and they start to put salt on the roads -- but we've got to support Wunderlich USA, right?

And like you, I don't mess with drivetrains (especially given my warranty claim last year).
Hey Bill! Long time. Hope you are well. The Wunderlich handguards are the best performing guards I’ve ever had on a bike. I’m more concerned with dry hands, stones, etc. than with the cold. For me worth every penny.
 
Have wunderlich hand guards, givi screen (had one before on my c650), Skene photon booster (yellow) and rear p3 ts lights, rear givi maxia 5, givi bmw scooter appropriate plate and plastic monolock plate, termoscud scooter blanket…

Think that’s it? I’m not up for mechanical changes to engine or drivetrain etc.

Honestly with the Bay Area weather the thing I’m most looking forwards to is the screen and hand guards..

Query for those who fitted the givi top boxes, how much weight could you load up onto the specific bmw plate, it’s alooominum so looks super sturdy..
I own the Givi screen but don’t have it installed. It provides the best protection out of the ones I’ve tried. My set up is similar except for an AdMore light bar with decelerometer in the rear and Skene up front. No blanket either as I live in Florida.
 
Hey Bill! Long time. Hope you are well. The Wunderlich handguards are the best performing guards I’ve ever had on a bike. I’m more concerned with dry hands, stones, etc. than with the cold. For me worth every penny.
1) I'm fine, thanks. About to call it a year, in these parts, with both bikes. MAYBE one or two more rides, but I added StarTron to my E0 fill-ups lately. I have some videos of recent rides in my gallery (and some in the Meteor gallery, too).

2) More importantly, how are YOU doing? Been some nasty weather in your state recently, I saw on the news (and my daughter in Asheville just got water in her house's pipes this afternoon).

3) Regarding the handguards, okay, several of you have probably convinced me, even though, as I say, I've never had handguards on any bike.

Just this morning, I filled out a web form on Wunderlich's site:


I am interested in your Hand Protectors, Part # 27520703, for my 2023 C 400 GT. I see on the page https://www.wunderlichamerica.com/BMW_C400_GT_Hand_Protectors that "They can be used with or without grip heating as well as handlebar end weights and our cruise control." I already have your cruise control on my scooter, but I am wondering whether the Hand Protectors are also compatible with your Marathon windscreen (which I also have on the scooter). Thank you for any help with this, and for your time.


And got an answer this afternoon:


Hello William,

I hope all is well today.

Yes, our handguards will work perfect with our Marathon screen.

Best regards,
Doug Shaw
Sales and Marketing



So, okay, I'm going to do this.

Now, one last question for the peanut gallery: what color does anyone recommend? I see that all the variants -- black, white, clear, and tinted -- are the same price, and I'm LEANING toward black, given the dark nature of the rest of my bike, and the black mirrors, etc.:

2024-08-05_13-07-19 2.webp
 
More importantly, how are YOU doing?
Thank you for asking! We are fine. Landscape damage was the limit of our impacts. We live in Estero, Estero Island took the direct hit from Ian, but we are far enough inland to not have any issues from storm surge. Our house is just coming up to five years old so it is built to hurricane code.
 
Got the handguards Saturday and put them on yesterday: nice, but what a PITA to put them on -- took me about three hours.

The main problem was that the two holes in the handguards bracket on the left (rear brake) side didn't EXACTLY line up with the combination of the mirror stem threads and the master cylinder clamp assembly. I spent a lot of time putting in one of those bolts first, then trying to fit the other, then reversing my procedure, then trying to put each bolt in just a little bit, and so forth. Took me a lot of time, and a fair amount of swearing.

And when I finally got that done -- I had no problems with the right side, which I had installed first -- I discovered that over on the left, the handguard bumped up against the left side of my Wunderlich Marathon windscreen (which according to Wunderlich was compatible with the handguards), by just a little bit, at full left lock of the handlebars. It turns out that if I tilted the rear-brake assembly just a little bit more downward than I think I had that lever, it would work at full lock.

I also had a tough time compressing the wellnuts enough to start the screws into the metal threaded parts at the end. I wound up doing this with the plastic off the metal brackets, and then mushing the just-started wellnuts into the holes in the bracket.

And I really had to use extreme snugness when tightening the master-cylinder clamp bolt, to keep the whole thing from rotating when installing that mirror and tightening its locking bolt.

(And, by the way, just to keep you on your toes, the four bolts on the mirror stems -- two per stem -- all rotate in different directions on each side.)

2024-10-20_13-26-54 2.webp

2024-10-20_13-26-32 2.webp

I guess this is a quality product, what with the curved lips all around to direct the air away even more than the with the large surface area alone. And I plan to get a ride in, in a couple of days, to actually check them out.

But I sure am looking forward to installing some handguards on my Meteor 350 in a few weeks ... by just messing with the bar ends! I plan to get one of these:



I would've preferred that the installation of the Wunderlich guards had been that easy.
 
Thanks for the heads up! Did you record the install process, or is the instructions and process self explanatory? The pita aspect being the tolerances and fiddling required?
 
Thanks for the heads up! Did you record the install process, or is the instructions and process self explanatory? The pita aspect being the tolerances and fiddling required?
No recording, just the instructions (which are ok).

Measure the space between the lever clamps and the switchgear, if you want to maintain that. And try to duplicate the angle of the levers, as those mirror-stem clamps will rotate when you replace the stock bolts with the supplied longer ones.

You’ll need 14 and 16mm wrenches, and T25 and T30 bits, and an M5 Allen bit.

And patience, and mental flexibility with the various different directions of the mirror-stem bolts.

EDIT ADDITION: Instructions here:
 
Last edited:
Thanks so much! Now I just need the clears to arrive from wunderlich… waiting on them looking at the temperatures in the mornings and evenings like…. Hmmm. Would love a ride report from you in due course.
 
Review of Wunderlich Handguards for C 400 GT: MEH.

Would love a ride report from you in due course.

Okay, I did about 150 miles with the handguards yesterday (see https://www.bmw-scooters.com/threads/2-x-c-400-gt-lunch-in-lee-ma.3303/), in temps from about 62°F to 75°F, mostly riding around 50-60mph, but with a max speed for the day at 82.5mph.

Executive Summary: these may be more beneficial to, more appreciated by, some riders, but I will be taking them off, i.e., going back to a stock condition on my C 400 GT.

Pros:

==>
They really do deflect the wind around your hands.

They are large to begin with, and the curved lips on all sides add to the wind-deflection effect -- I moved my hands around the outside areas, and was impressed by the pushed-aside windflow.

Cons:

==>
They really do deflect the wind around your hands.

This means that if they are using up even, say, 1 of the 34 HP (that's at the crank -- even less at the rear wheel itself) of the C 400 GT when pushing all that air aside, that's a not-insignificant portion.

Don't forget that air resistance is proportional to velocity squared. So at higher speeds, I actually felt that the bike was a tiny bit sluggish, compared to normal. This is hard for me to verify, of course, and it was a breezy day. But I was on all sorts of back roads with varying directions, and that's how it felt to me.

The bottom line here is that if you want to deflect a lot of air, you're also giving up some oomph, especially as your speed increases.

==> That alignment issue, or something, that I had with the left side came into play. I had the left side assembly -- the whole thing: handguard, lever, mirror stem -- rotate during some bumps in the ride.

I don't fully understand what the deal is here. Recall that I had a tough time getting the two holes in the left bracket aligned for the two bolts (the bottom mirror-stem holding piece, and the longer replacement bolt for the clamp). And then I kept tightening, while experimenting with lever angle. I kept tightening and tightening that replacement clamp bolt; I didn't use a torque wrench, but I've tightened a lot of bolts, and I felt I was getting too close to the point of snapping it. And the stock clamp bolt (with a deep Allen head, not a shallow Torx head) wasn't in all that tightly, based on how much effort it took for me to remove it.

My point here is that I never had this problem with the stock clamp setup, which didn't seem to need all that tightness. I don't know what's going on, but I don't want to snap a bolt, and I don't want the whole assembly to rotate when I hit bumps, let alone with I try to adjust the mirrors themselves.

==> As I also mentioned, Wunderlich's entire setup seems over-engineered to me.

I think that a simple bar-end setup would be fine, like the links I posted for the Royal Enfield. I ordered the Barkbuster version; they're possibly the premier vendor of handguards, and they think, for that application, that a bar-end-only mount is sufficient. Keep in mind that we're talking wind-deflection only here, not to keep tree branches off of our hands. That is, Barkbusters and others make two-point mounts for their handguards that are designed for off-road protection of your hands and the levers, but that is not the case here.

So if a single-point mount, by Barkbusters and others, works on many bikes for simple wind-deflection, why not on the C 400 GT, too, by Wunderlich? "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should," as the saying goes. And besides Wunderlich, I'm talking to BMW, too, as they learned as a result of their power-assist-brake fiasco, and as they should have heeded regarding the Schrader valve placement on the C 400 GT.

Summary:

==>
Note that I have nothing against Wunderlich, as I have a bunch of their products. I rate their sidestand enlarger at 5/5, their Marathon windscreen 4/5; their front crashbars 4/5; and their throttle lock at 2/5.

==> If you ride a lot in pretty cold weather, don't ride much near the top end of the C 400 GT, and have the stock windscreen, or you don't wear gloves, you will probably find more value in these handguards.

I don't ride much in cold weather. Around here, around this time of the year, the leaves start to accumulate not just on the side of the back roads I frequent but in the roads themselves. When they get wet during a rainstorm, they stay wet for days, and one thing you don't want to do when riding is lean during a curve with wet leaves underfoot (or, more accurately, "undertire"). And pretty soon they will start salting the roads, I don't want salt on the bike, even on freakishly warm days.

I have the Meteor 350 for smelling the roses on back roads; it tops out around 72mph. By contrast, I do my higher speed runs, and certainly my out-of-town multi-day highway runs on the C 400 GT. I don't want to give up any of the top end on that bike.

And speaking of windscreens, as I just noted I have Wunderlich's Marathon. That is already much wider at the bottom than the stock C 400 GT windscreen (and about the same height). Thus, I already get some extra wind protection, including a bit on the hands, from that. And, yes, I already pay a slight HP penalty for having that.

(And speaking of windscreens, I have a pretty small windscreen on the Meteor -- it came stock with no windscreen at all. So I think I may actually find the handguards for that useful that bike, and also given how I use it, despite its puny 20 HP output.)

The bottom line here may be that given the weather I ride in and my current configuration, I don't need the handguards, and they may be a detriment.

For all my riding, I have settled on two pairs of gloves over the last few years (and have a box of perhaps 20 other pairs), a version with a slight airflow (Rev'it Cayenne: https://www.revitsport.com/us_en/motorcycles-gloves-cayenne-2-black-sand, which run small, if you're interested in them), and a pair with some minor insulation and which are also rainproof (Reax Ridge WP: https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/reax-ridge-wp-gloves). (And me, I won't ride around the block without gloves on.)

I took both of these, and only those, for my Alps tour last year -- on a stock C 400 X -- and they worked fine. More to the point, they work fine for me at home. I hardly ever use the heated grips function on the bike. And if I feel that there's too much air getting up my jacket sleeves, I just cinch down the velcro cuff straps.

The absolute bottom line here is that I gave them a try, and they're not for me. I plan on removing them -- putting the bike back to stock, in this respect (and hoping the stock left clamp setup returns to its steadfast self) -- sometime this weekend, and putting the handguards on the shelf.
 
Fantastic write up - I appreciate it. Comprehensive, and super useful. The complexity is the thing that annoys me the most I think, even without having received mine. I think the end bar attachment process would make sense, and then being able to simply disassemble for riding in the heat of summer - that would make sense.

On that basis I canceled my order, and will have a think about some other brand to get that has a simple attachment. You mentioned barkbusters? Edited to say I got a pair of RevIt goretex gloves from RevZilla to use up a bunch of points. The Kryptonite 2s or whatever they are.
 
Fantastic write up - I appreciate it. Comprehensive, and super useful. The complexity is the thing that annoys me the most I think, even without having received mine. I think the end bar attachment process would make sense, and then being able to simply disassemble for riding in the heat of summer - that would make sense.

On that basis I canceled my order, and will have a think about some other brand to get that has a simple attachment. You mentioned barkbusters? Edited to say I got a pair of RevIt goretex gloves from RevZilla to use up a bunch of points. The Kryptonite 2s or whatever they are.
I removed the Wunderlich handguards this morning, and put the bike back to stock in that regard.

I also discovered that I think my problem with the looseness of the left side was because the lower clamp bolt was too loose. That is, there are two stock (M5 Allen head) bolts that hold each clamp in place. The upper bolt is replaced with a longer (T30 head) bolt from Wunderlich. When you take the stock upper bolt out, there is the possibility, during moving things around, that the bottom bolt will loosen up too much. Thus, however much you tighten the replacement upper bolt, if the bottom stock one is not snug to begin with, you can't get the clamp really snugly back in place.

At least I think that's what the problem was. During my restoration today, I snugged up the bottom bolts, such that I just rotate the assemblies to the way I liked the levers, and only then snugged down the top M5 bolts. The whole assemblies are really tight now, I can adjust the mirrors without holding the stems in place, etc.

All of that said, I took some more pics today, to help out those who want to install these. I will be adding that info shortly to the handguard thread https://www.bmw-scooters.com/threads/hand-guards.2775/
 
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