So much for the DCT

JaimeC

JaimeC

New member
Ya know, I could never understand why some people wish their scooters had a Dual Clutch Transmission instead of the Continuous Variable Transmissions they have. The DCT just seems more complex, with more things that could go wrong.

Looks like (in the automobile world, at least) I was right:
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/why-cvts-won-direct-shift-gearboxes-lost-fuel-113015354.html

This past weekend I took the Stayin' Safe Motorcycle Safety Tour up in New England. One of my fellow students had that new Honda NC700X, but he had the six-speed manual transmission, not the DCT version. When I asked him why, he said he test rode the DCT first, but it just felt "strange" to him. He could feel it up and downshifting, even when he was leaned over in a turn and he found that rather disconcerting. I can't say I blame him; that would upset me as well.

If I'm not the one in control of the shifting, I'd rather not feel anything at all. The CVT does that perfectly.
 
Oldscoot

Oldscoot

New member
I owned a Burgman 650. The bike downshifted into its lowest gear automatically and there was significant engine breaking which I didn't like. When this occurred in a turn it was awkward. I understand they corrected it a bit in the 2014 model. I've not ridden any of the Honda bikes so I don't know whether it is the same experience.
 
E

Edumakated

New member
JaimeC said:
Ya know, I could never understand why some people wish their scooters had a Dual Clutch Transmission instead of the Continuous Variable Transmissions they have. The DCT just seems more complex, with more things that could go wrong.

Looks like (in the automobile world, at least) I was right:
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/why-cvts-won-direct-shift-gearboxes-lost-fuel-113015354.html

This past weekend I took the Stayin' Safe Motorcycle Safety Tour up in New England. One of my fellow students had that new Honda NC700X, but he had the six-speed manual transmission, not the DCT version. When I asked him why, he said he test rode the DCT first, but it just felt "strange" to him. He could feel it up and downshifting, even when he was leaned over in a turn and he found that rather disconcerting. I can't say I blame him; that would upset me as well.

If I'm not the one in control of the shifting, I'd rather not feel anything at all. The CVT does that perfectly.
Click to expand...


I've only experienced DCT in higher end sports cars and it worked pretty well imho. The reviews I've read on the Honda DCT in bikes have been fairly positive. Any complaints seem to be nitpicking by traditionalist and not based on any reality. I expect the technology will get more refined. The CVT on my C600 is great. Only complaint I have is the lag/stutter at initial take off. I can't recall when I've driven a CVT car so can't really comment on how that works in an auto. I can't say I have a preference of one over the other. I'm just tired of shifting...
 
JaimeC

JaimeC

New member
FWIW, the Burgmann has a CVT (not a DCT), but they did something to the system to make it emulate a regular transmission (hence the "manual shift mode"). Not sure what, but everyone I've ever spoken to with a Burgman said they played with the manual shift the first few times they rode it, but left it in "Automatic" mode ever since.

The Burgman would probably cost less than the two BMW scooters if they just eliminated that one useless feature (and, from what I hear, also a LOT less expensive to service as well).
 
N

Normsthename

Member
Regarding the DCT changing gear mid corner, yes it does do that!
It's something that you would not do on a manual bike.
But the DCT gear change is so seamless that all you notice is the Dash Gear number changing! :)

Andy
 
Oldscoot

Oldscoot

New member
JaimeC said:
FWIW, the Burgmann has a CVT (not a DCT), but they did something to the system to make it emulate a regular transmission (hence the "manual shift mode"). Not sure what, but everyone I've ever spoken to with a Burgman said they played with the manual shift the first few times they rode it, but left it in "Automatic" mode ever since.

The Burgman would probably cost less than the two BMW scooters if they just eliminated that one useless feature (and, from what I hear, also a LOT less expensive to service as well).
Click to expand...


The Burgman 650 has what is called a "SECVT" transmission. The SECVT adjusts the CVT ratio by varying the drive-pulley diameter with an electric actuator motor which is controlled by sensor feed to a CPU.

I agree - the paddle shifter was largely a novelty.
 
S

Snowdog

New member
I don't think having a DCT in my Sport would enhance the riding experience at all!! Shifting is old technology , why make a six speed gearbox more and more complicated, when a CVT is actually a zillion speed gearbox for a lot less money and complexity.
 
Xian Forbes

Xian Forbes

New member
I like the cvt, it reminds me of the technology used in aircraft propellers to keep the engine turning at a specific rpm by varying the pitch of the prop blades to adjust the load on the motor. It's simple and effective.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
 
SteveADV

SteveADV

Active member
Xian Forbes said:
I like the cvt, it reminds me of the technology used in aircraft propellers to keep the engine turning at a specific rpm by varying the pitch of the prop blades to adjust the load on the motor. It's simple and effective.
Click to expand...

Effective for sure, and simple conceptually with the way you describe it, but a technology that is certainly advanced beyond a clutch and shift lever. Great visual, thanks.
 
JaimeC

JaimeC

New member
Anyone want to take a guess at who first conceptualized the idea of the CVT? I'll give you a hint: He sketched it in 1490...
 
S

Spdrush

New member
Edumakated said:
I've only experienced DCT in higher end sports cars and it worked pretty well imho. The reviews I've read on the Honda DCT in bikes have been fairly positive. Any complaints seem to be nitpicking by traditionalist and not based on any reality. I expect the technology will get more refined. The CVT on my C600 is great. Only complaint I have is the lag/stutter at initial take off. I can't recall when I've driven a CVT car so can't really comment on how that works in an auto. I can't say I have a preference of one over the other. I'm just tired of shifting...
Click to expand...

My present car is an STi and I am tired of shifting 6 speeds manually. The Subaru sedans have a Cvt transmission and it seems to work well. No shift points etc. My next car will likely be a New Golf Type R with a DCT.

Back in the day I worked for a division of Reliance Elect. whose Reeves Division which made huge transmissions with conical sheaves which operated to change the pitch diameter.
the power was transmitted via leather belts with wood blocks and leather tips operating between the sheaves to change the speed and torque as earlier factories had overhead line shafts to transmit power to machines.
Alas these companies are now defunct victims of Chinese products and technology.
 
S

Snowdog

New member
I was very impressed that Leo also invented the parachute. A few years ago someone made a full size model of it and tried it out, it worked!! and was properly sized also. He wasn't perfect though as there was a wooden frame to hold the shape of the chute which was a pyramid shape. The test chutist ditched the rig before hitting the ground so the frame wouldn't hit him. Yeah, he was wearing an extra chute.
He probably needed the chute to go along with his helicopter. If Leo only had a ShopSmith and a milling machine.
 
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