The bad news is...

Edumakated

New member
I think the issue is that there aren't many alternatives... arguably, the more reliable bikes are not as nice or sexy as the bimmers. I would tend to think BMW is competing against Ducati, KTM, MV Agusta, etc... not necessarily the Japanese bikes which at least have a rep for being more reliable... which is partly because they are less sophisticated tech wise. It is a trade off. The direct BMW competitors are probably just as fickle.
 

Sparkrn

Member
Just thinking that they could have tipped the 2billion mark had the put the real cruise control option on the scooter
 

SteveADV

Active member
The quality and reliability questions are brought up on various forums and yet nearly a third of the riders in the invitation only 2015 Iron Butt Rally (25 states and 11,000+\- miles in 11 days) ride BMWs; and obviously not the vintage variety. Mostly Rs with a K here and there (plus a rider on a 2013 Vermillion C650GT). These people need reliable machines more than most and are some of the most knowledgeable motorcycle people on the planet (they, not me:D). Believe me, they obsess over reliability.

In second place with the largest number of bikes represented was Yamaha, mostly the FJR1300; another spectacular sport touring bike. There was no other manufacturer even close.

So, what does this have to do with record sales?? Hey, if I'm a product manager for one of the lines, I am fighting like hell to get money (from a bigger basket) for my line. Record corporate sales (division sales in this case) are a good thing UNLESS the company decides to let a product line die. And even though we have a right to be unhappy with no cruise control (yet), no change to the CGT fairing, mirror issues, and no doubt several other things, it does not appear in any way that BMW is dropping the C line. I would argue the opposite is true.
 

JaimeC

New member
Just remember that the year BMW introduced their new rear bearing design, EVERY SINGLE BIKE using that design failed to finish the Iron Butt. That was an enormous black eye for the company. Oh, and years later, remember what left me stranded upstate NY? Yep... that damned rear bearing on the C650GT...

Funny thing though... Yamaha has been getting the highest reliability ratings but Yamaha DEALERS rate near the bottom for customer satisfaction. BMW rates near the bottom for reliability (only Can Am was rated worse) but BMW dealers rate near the top for customer satisfaction. That was the primary reason I traded in my TMAX for the C650GT back in 2013.

Victory rates near the top for both categories; too bad they don't make anything I particularly care for (though if they ever put REAL saddlebags on the Vision I might be interested).
 

SteveADV

Active member
Just remember that the year BMW introduced their new rear bearing design, EVERY SINGLE BIKE using that design failed to finish the Iron Butt. That was an enormous black eye for the company....

Funny thing though... Yamaha has been getting the highest reliability ratings but Yamaha DEALERS rate near the bottom for customer satisfaction. BMW rates near the bottom for reliability (only Can Am was rated worse) but BMW dealers rate near the top for customer satisfaction...

Victory rates near the top for both categories; too bad they don't make anything I particularly care for....

Yeah, I remember you mentioning that in a previous post. While I don't know the details behind when or how many failed in your example, I do know what is happening today, or at least at last year's rally.

Funny thing about the dealer ratings, too. I wonder if it is warranty related, unit profitability related, buyer-type related, or dealer selection process related (probably a combination of many factors). Harley dealer ratings are high and the reliability for that line was sub-par, also. Although, of course, there are many Harley owners that would dispute any negative ratings.

My point is that brand reputation is a key motivator. A record increase in sales is not a demotivator. Sales and profit increases are a good thing. Fewer manufacturing and engineering corners get cut.

I hear yah about the Victory line.
 

JaimeC

New member
I can think of two personal incidents that highlight the differences between dealing with Yamaha and dealing with BMW. Both of these go back up to the manufacturer, BUT the face I had to deal with was the dealership (who, in the eyes of the public, IS the face of the manufacturer).

I've always been a high-mileage rider because when I started riding, my bikes became my primary means of transportation. My cars ended up sitting for long stretches of time waiting for bad weather or the need to haul more than one person or a lot of cargo. My bikes were never "toys" (which they are for the majority of Americans, at least) so I tended to put a LOT of miles on whatever I rode. A perfect example would be my 1999 K1200LT with 198,000 miles and my 2001 Subaru Outback with barely 90,000.

Anyway, back in 1988 I'd had my K100 for almost three years. It already had over 50,000 miles on the odometer. I was taking an "Owner's Maintenance School" up in Vermont and we were testing the battery (remember those days? You used a hydrometer to test the specific gravity of the battery acid to determine the state of the battery) and we discovered the battery was below standard. This was the original battery and the bike was less than three years old (back then, BMW's warranty was three years, UNLIMITED miles). The dealership hosting the school called BMW of North America and just like that, I had a brand new battery installed! I certainly wasn't expecting that.

Moving ahead a few years and my 1992 Yamaha Venture Royale. I had purchased it in 1993 as a leftover. After a couple of months, one of the helmet locks broke so since it was still under warranty I brought it back to the dealer. The initial response was: "Yamaha doesn't warranty any after-market add ons." I was incredulous! Those weren't after-market, they were STOCK and on the bike when I took delivery. Furthermore, they were keyed to the ignition so where the hell did they get the idea they were "after market?" It took awhile but EVENTUALLY they replaced the lock (but the new lock required a new key).

More recently, my old TMAX had an issue where the left side glove box latch broke so it wouldn't stay closed. Again, this was in the first year of ownership. The verdict from the dealer? Yamaha doesn't warranty the plastic trim pieces. TRIM PIECES?? This wasn't a trim piece, it was the ****ING LATCH!! That one was never resolved to my satisfaction and I ended up having to buy a new piece. That, combined with the lousy service I'd gotten from two different dealerships was the reason I traded in the TMAX for the C650GT. The Yamaha MAY have a better reputation for reliability, but if the dealer and manufacturer are going to treat me like that I'd rather go for the less reliable vehicle with better customer support.
 

justscootin

Member
The life and times of Jaime

I can think of two personal incidents that highlight the differences between dealing with Yamaha and dealing with BMW. Both of these go back up to the manufacturer, BUT the face I had to deal with was the dealership (who, in the eyes of the public, IS the face of the manufacturer).

I've always been a high-mileage rider because when I started riding, my bikes became my primary means of transportation. My cars ended up sitting for long stretches of time waiting for bad weather or the need to haul more than one person or a lot of cargo. My bikes were never "toys" (which they are for the majority of Americans, at least) so I tended to put a LOT of miles on whatever I rode. A perfect example would be my 1999 K1200LT with 198,000 miles and my 2001 Subaru Outback with barely 90,000.

Anyway, back in 1988 I'd had my K100 for almost three years. It already had over 50,000 miles on the odometer. I was taking an "Owner's Maintenance School" up in Vermont and we were testing the battery (remember those days? You used a hydrometer to test the specific gravity of the battery acid to determine the state of the battery) and we discovered the battery was below standard. This was the original battery and the bike was less than three years old (back then, BMW's warranty was three years, UNLIMITED miles). The dealership hosting the school called BMW of North America and just like that, I had a brand new battery installed! I certainly wasn't expecting that.

Moving ahead a few years and my 1992 Yamaha Venture Royale. I had purchased it in 1993 as a leftover. After a couple of months, one of the helmet locks broke so since it was still under warranty I brought it back to the dealer. The initial response was: "Yamaha doesn't warranty any after-market add ons." I was incredulous! Those weren't after-market, they were STOCK and on the bike when I took delivery. Furthermore, they were keyed to the ignition so where the hell did they get the idea they were "after market?" It took awhile but EVENTUALLY they replaced the lock (but the new lock required a new key).

More recently, my old TMAX had an issue where the left side glove box latch broke so it wouldn't stay closed. Again, this was in the first year of ownership. The verdict from the dealer? Yamaha doesn't warranty the plastic trim pieces. TRIM PIECES?? This wasn't a trim piece, it was the ****ING LATCH!! That one was never resolved to my satisfaction and I ended up having to buy a new piece. That, combined with the lousy service I'd gotten from two different dealerships was the reason I traded in the TMAX for the C650GT. The Yamaha MAY have a better reputation for reliability, but if the dealer and manufacturer are going to treat me like that I'd rather go for the less reliable vehicle with better customer support.
 

Skutorr

Active member
It's all dealership-specific. When my service (tires changes, only) are done at my local Yamaha dealer, their service is exemplary. They MATCH the cheapest internet price I find on the tire, and then install and balance it for a greatly reduced price because I bought the tire through them! The recently replaced front tire cost me $24.00 to have it R&R'd and balanced with RIDE-ON, which retails for $14/bottle. That's insanely cheap! All my filters and maintenance parts I buy I get through them also, with prices matching the Internet ones.

These guys WANT my business!:cool:
 

Spdrush

New member
For sure. Just ask Spdrush.

And I agree 100% with Jaime, I'll sacrifice a fair amount to get a good dealer and some customer service support.

I still would like suggestions regarding a great dealer in Northern Ohio. My bike is in storage (part of the deal I worked out) with the dealer. I may be able to get it assuming there isn't a hold for the latest recall.

It is easier to find a doctor or lawyer than find a superior BMW Motorad dealer.
 

SteveADV

Active member
I've taken mine to All Seasons in Wooster and have been satisfied with the work. I've been to the west side dealer a few times but never had any service work done there. Their shop looks kinda "cluttered" to me. Maybe their mechanics are geniuses or maybe just too busy or too (???). Phil recommended the dealer in central OH (Mathius I think)which is only slightly farther than the Wooster dealer.
 

ItsPhilD

Member
Phil recommended the dealer in central OH (Mathius I think)which is only slightly farther than the Wooster dealer.

Mathias BMW in New Philadelphia, OH. Gene is the owner and Jamie the Service Manager. As a matter of fact my GF just bought a brand new, untitled 2014 R1200R from Mathias and we live in Phoenix, AZ. It will get picked up this week and delivered next.

I know Tom Swisher at All Seasons very well and bought a couple new and used ones from him over the years. But I always went to Mathias for my service.
 

Spdrush

New member
I've taken mine to All Seasons in Wooster and have been satisfied with the work. I've been to the west side dealer a few times but never had any service work done there. Their shop looks kinda "cluttered" to me. Maybe their mechanics are geniuses or maybe just too busy or too (???). Phil recommended the dealer in central OH (Mathius I think)which is only slightly farther than the Wooster dealer.

Thanks for the info. You have mentioned that dealer before. I will try them the next time I need service. The east side dealer is unimpressive with one mechanic (I call him butterfingers).
 
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