Thinking Of Buying A 650

[zx10guy]

Yeah, the lack of cruise is one of the annoyances I have with the C 400 GT, as I do, or try to do, one or two multi-day highway slogs each year (to visit a daughter in Asheville, for instance -- the good part of that is that Deals Gap, the Cherahola Skyway, etc., is then only two hours away).

I find that a tremendous oversight, given that the 400 has throttle-by-wire. How hard would it have been to add cruise? See my gallery pic https://billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-12 for my halfass solution, and another recommendation.

The other gripe I have regards being able to add an external TPMS sensor to only the rear wheel (and an internal TPMS sensor is not offered as an option). See this particular pic and caption for my comment on that: https://billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-61

Now, having mention those negatives (and the underseat storage is nothing to write home about, either, and I wouldn't kick an aftermarket suspension out of my garage), let me also add a positive, since you also mention this: the handling is superb!

At home, in a total of about 6,000 miles now on the two C 400 GTs, I have yet to scrape anything on a lean, and I've tried -- and have always felt very planted and confident while trying. This is a first for me, over the course of 26 years, covering an R850R standard, Valkyrie and Victory baggers, and two Burgman 650s (and, after only 2,000 miles, I'm still getting acquainted with my other current ride, a Meteor 350, but I expect to grind off its peg feelers this season).

Last July, I participated in Edelweiss' Ultimate Alps Tour ... on a C 400 X; see https://www.billanddot.com/Ultimate-Alps-Tour/ . We sorted ourselves out after a day or two, and I hung out in the fast half of the ten customer bikes (most of which were RTs, with couples aboard). Over the course of a week-and-a-half of hairpins, I got down to lean angles of 43° left and 41° right (I have a modern GoPro that can accurately track this sort of thing), which is pretty far. And only one time, and very lightly, did I manage to scrape anything (and that was on a tighty-righty, suspension-loading downhill switchback). My point is that I put that scooter through its handling paces, and it came out smelling like a rose.

And that's why I really like the C 400 GT, even with its shortcomings. I'm old, but not dead (or all that slow) yet. Well, that, and my wife told me to buy one.

I actually sort of expect the feedback with regards to the handling of the C400 GT. This is the advantage of a smaller displacement bike that weighs less than a bigger bike. While I have two liter sport bikes and do track time on an S1000RR, I've been kicking around the idea of getting a Ninja 400 or maybe a ZX-4RR for precisely what you mention with the fun factor. I want to be able to full hooligan on the streets in corners without being immediately thrown in jail. I know my RR will have me in prison without leaving first gear. Same with my old ZX-10R.

One question I do have about the C400 GT, how are the brakes? That's one of my gripes about my C650 Sport. I don't care for the lack of bite and feel of the front brakes. This shouldn't be with dual rotors/dual caliper front brakes.

 

[wspollack]

I actually sort of expect the feedback with regards to the handling of the C400 GT. This is the advantage of a smaller displacement bike that weighs less than a bigger bike. While I have two liter sport bikes and do track time on an S1000RR, I've been kicking around the idea of getting a Ninja 400 or maybe a ZX-4RR for precisely what you mention with the fun factor. I want to be able to full hooligan on the streets in corners without being immediately thrown in jail. I know my RR will have me in prison without leaving first gear. Same with my old ZX-10R.

One question I do have about the C400 GT, how are the brakes? That's one of my gripes about my C650 Sport. I don't care for the lack of bite and feel of the front brakes. This shouldn't be with dual rotors/dual caliper front brakes.

To get right to your question: I find the brakes "very good," in terms of both stopping power and modulation.

The caveat here is two-fold:

1) I've never owned a sportbike, so I'm certainly not used to, or even acquainted with, say, one-finger braking. So your experience is undoubtedly better and more sophisticated than mine.

OTOH, while I'm still, somewhat, considering upgrading the shocks, I never considered replacing the braking system or even looking for different pads.

2) With the exception of about three months last year -- when a Meteor 350 was my only bike -- for the last seven years or thereabouts, I've been riding nothing but scooters (with the exception of a week in Europe on a Niken). For me, that means that I have muscle memory wherein I pretty much always grab BOTH brakes when I mean to brake (with the exception of coming to a complete stop or doing U-turns).

That means that that's another reason why I'm not a sophisticated judge of only using front brakes.

(And that habit carried over to the Meteor -- well, not two-handed grabbing, but one-handed grabbing and one-footed pressing. The Meteor 350 has terrible brakes, and only a single disc up front -- the first bike I've ever owned with that setup -- and you absolutely need to use everything at your disposal if you want to slow down quickly. That's a bike that I AM INDEED planning on getting aftermarket pads for.)

So, to summarize: I am completely satisfied with the brakes on the C 400 bikes, but I'm not a great judge of brakes.

Now, regarding kidding around. I imagine that you've heard the saying, "It's more fun to go fast on a slow bike than it is to go slow on a fast bike." I certainly hear you, regarding your trying to avoid jail time (our sole car, my wife's grocery-getter, etc., tops out at 156 mph ... according to the specs).

I can certainly recommend both the C 400 GT and the Meteor 350, in terms of that adage. Per my GPS, the GT tops out at 89 (34 HP) on level ground (the owner's manual says 86), and the Meteor at 72 (20 HP).

BTW, don't get me wrong about the M350: despite its many shortcomings, I have a shit eating grin whenever I ride it; it is such a charming, torquey, light, elemental back-road machine. If you want some very cheap fun with a three-year warranty, you might want to look into a Hunter (https://www.royalenfield.com/us/en/motorcycles/hunter-350/), which is even less expensive than the Meteor (plus, it has fork gaiters, which I'm sucker for). I would've gotten one myself, but I can't ride all day with my knees closed up.

If you want to spend a little more than you would at an RE dealer, the on-road version of the new 400 Triumphs has gotten some very nice reviews (although the reviews never mention the dealer/shipping/whatever fee, which is nothing to sneeze at with them -- I have a Triumph/Ducati dealership a little over a mile from me). Of course, nothing wrong with the well-proven small Ninjas, et al.

I hope you find something useful out of my ramblings here.

Oh, BTW, these are a far cry from your S1000RR -- I don't think I could tuck in my stomach enough to even sit on one and reach the bars, let alone get my knees sufficiently bent -- as recently as 2016 I did a Tony's Track Days Non-Sportbike day for the second time on my Victory ...



... and as recently as 2017 I did one for the second time on my most recent Burgman 650:



Ken ("Riding in the Zone") Condon has spun these days off on his own now, and if I'm still healthy (I'm 76 now) I may give the C 400 an on-track shot one of these years.

 

[zx10guy]

To get right to your question: I find the brakes "very good," in terms of both stopping power and modulation.

The caveat here is two-fold:

1) I've never owned a sportbike, so I'm certainly not used to, or even acquainted with, say, one-finger braking. So your experience is undoubtedly better and more sophisticated than mine.

OTOH, while I'm still, somewhat, considering upgrading the shocks, I never considered replacing the braking system or even looking for different pads.

2) With the exception of about three months last year -- when a Meteor 350 was my only bike -- for the last seven years or thereabouts, I've been riding nothing but scooters (with the exception of a week in Europe on a Niken). For me, that means that I have muscle memory wherein I pretty much always grab BOTH brakes when I mean to brake (with the exception of coming to a complete stop or doing U-turns).

That means that that's another reason why I'm not a sophisticated judge of only using front brakes.

(And that habit carried over to the Meteor -- well, not two-handed grabbing, but one-handed grabbing and one-footed pressing. The Meteor 350 has terrible brakes, and only a single disc up front -- the first bike I've ever owned with that setup -- and you absolutely need to use everything at your disposal if you want to slow down quickly. That's a bike that I AM INDEED planning on getting aftermarket pads for.)

So, to summarize: I am completely satisfied with the brakes on the C 400 bikes, but I'm not a great judge of brakes.

Now, regarding kidding around. I imagine that you've heard the saying, "It's more fun to go fast on a slow bike than it is to go slow on a fast bike." I certainly hear you, regarding your trying to avoid jail time (our sole car, my wife's grocery-getter, etc., tops out at 156 mph ... according to the specs).

I can certainly recommend both the C 400 GT and the Meteor 350, in terms of that adage. Per my GPS, the GT tops out at 89 (34 HP) on level ground (the owner's manual says 86), and the Meteor at 72 (20 HP).

BTW, don't get me wrong about the M350: despite its many shortcomings, I have a shit eating grin whenever I ride it; it is such a charming, torquey, light, elemental back-road machine. If you want some very cheap fun with a three-year warranty, you might want to look into a Hunter (https://www.royalenfield.com/us/en/motorcycles/hunter-350/), which is even less expensive than the Meteor (plus, it has fork gaiters, which I'm sucker for). I would've gotten one myself, but I can't ride all day with my knees closed up.

If you want to spend a little more than you would at an RE dealer, the on-road version of the new 400 Triumphs has gotten some very nice reviews (although the reviews never mention the dealer/shipping/whatever fee, which is nothing to sneeze at with them -- I have a Triumph/Ducati dealership a little over a mile from me). Of course, nothing wrong with the well-proven small Ninjas, et al.

I hope you find something useful out of my ramblings here.

Oh, BTW, these are a far cry from your S1000RR -- I don't think I could tuck in my stomach enough to even sit on one and reach the bars, let alone get my knees sufficiently bent -- as recently as 2016 I did a Tony's Track Days Non-Sportbike day for the second time on my Victory ...

View attachment 4485

... and as recently as 2017 I did one for the second time on my most recent Burgman 650:

View attachment 4486

Ken ("Riding in the Zone") Condon has spun these days off on his own now, and if I'm still healthy (I'm 76 now) I may give the C 400 an on-track shot one of these years.

Thanks for your write up and impressions.

You're right about having more fun on a bike that's slow that you can ride to its limits versus a fast bike you ride slow. Your track time reminds of me this:

https://www.motoamerica.com/kotb-1/?doing_wp_cron=1710120865.5191009044647216796875

It's absolutely fun and hilarious seeing guys fling cruisers with hard cases/bags around a track.

This is me at the track.

 

[wspollack]

@zx10guy: That's a great pic. I never had full leathers, track boots, etc. -- they would have to have been custom made, and then probably altered every year, as I'm somewhat slimness-challenged.

Yep, I'm a big fan of the KOTB races. A lot of customization of those bikes, though, including pretty small side cases. But tons of fun to watch. Do you recall -- I think I'm going back a decade or more -- when the AMA races also used to sometimes include the Boxer Cup? Same kind of thing, only with everyone on Beemers, occasionally banging cylinder heads with each other.

Here are two more on-track bagger pics, Thompson, CT, in 2015, and then Loudon, NH, in 2016 (and I'm pretty sure there are no more baggers in my future):

 

[husafreak]

Wow, popular thread, and now with a life of its own I just wanted to add something already said really, but my experience. I test rode my 2016 C650 Sport and a 2023 C400 GT last fall at a local BMW dealer with my wife on the back. Previously had a small Yamaha scooter and they are fun, traded it in. Anywhoo, wife did feel a bit more comfortable with foot placement on the 400, it is light and nimble and would be way more fun zipping around town solo. But it's a 400 thumper and pricey new. Meanwhile the 650 is heavy and powerful, its a 650 twin so two up and highway speeds are no problemo, also riding to the coast or twisties with buddies on a variety of bikes is fine, you will be able to keep up. And with the flip down there's a ton of room under the seat, both helmets and a bunch of other stuff while parked, so I'm not sure why that feature would be a "no go", it works for us. I wasn't crazy about the suspension on either bike, the curse of the scooter, but with the 650 max preload and 350 lbs aboard it is OK, just have to avoid those bumps. I do live in constant fear that the timing chain will break, my dealer and this forum convinced me that it should give a warning rattle before it goes so listen up! 5k for a Beamer with 9k miles, not bad. Last but not least it got me into the local BMW club, where I ride my Yamaha Tenere 700 in the monthly club rides to camps.

 

[Delray]

"there's a ton of room under the seat, both helmets and other stuff while parked, I'm not sure why that feature would be a "no go", it works for us."

I run all my errands on my 650 GT or Burgman 400. Can't remember the last time I went grocery shopping with my car. A full recyclable bag slides neatly under the GT's seat, while my helmet lives in the top case. The Sport's flex trunk makes that convenience impossible.

On the other hand, the only important key words here are "works for us."

"I do live in constant fear that the timing chain will break."

It's my understanding that models made later in the 2016 production cycle, essentially 2017's but released as '16's, have the hydraulic tensioner. Easy way to check is to look for the oil feed line next to the oil filter (photo). I feel your fear. I owned '13 and '15 GT's and fretted a lot about that tensioner breaking. Same with the "lifetime" belt on the Burgman 650. If it breaks, your bike is pretty much good for parts, because a replacement belt install usually costs more than the bike is worth. In both cases, luckily, such catastrophes are rarities.

 

[husafreak]

Thanks, I have checked and my 2016 has the mechanical tensioner.
I don’t know but is it that the Sport seat can’t be used with a top case? I’ve never seen the GT seat arrangement. I just meant that I don’t mind using the flex trunk for storing my helmet when parked. Doesn’t work so well after shopping though!
Cheers

 

[Final.Drive]

My beautiful 15 GT is for sale in the classifieds section. PacNW area of the country.