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My C650GT failure during the 2015 Finger Lakes Rally

JaimeC

JaimeC

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I just got off the phone with Country Rode Motorwerks in Fairport, NY and have the story, but first, to recap:

I rode the C650GT to the rally rather than my K1200LT because "justscootin" shamed me into it. I couldn't think of any reason why I shouldn't, as I'd already ridden it to Indianapolis for the MotoGP, I'd done the Ramapo 500 and I'd taken it to the Charter Oak Rally in the Spring. Might as well finish up "Rally Season" with it as well.

Some of you may've seen the E-Mails where I was experiencing an occasional "vibration" on deceleration; somewhat akin to riding over "rumble strips" on the highway. It turns out that what I was feeling was the rear tire momentarily locking up and releasing; but so rapidly that it just felt like "vibration."

On Saturday (when I was on my way to visit an old friend in Buffalo), that locking became more pronounced. It happened ONCE on the Friday ride up, but I thought I'd just hit a slippery patch on the road... the rear tire slid out an inch or two, and then recovered. On Saturday, I was on clean, dry pavement and it started locking/sliding more and more frequently. Figuring I'd better get the **** off the scooter before it decided to do that leaned over in a curve, I hit the four-way flashers, got on to the shoulder and slowly rode to the first exit. I rode for awhile before I found a safe place to get completely off the road. Fortunately, I had a good cell signal so I was able to call my buddies at the campground, and then call BMW Roadside Assistance.

Country Rode was the closest dealership; 40 miles as the crow flies (but almost 70 miles via roads). Just my luck, they were closed for the long weekend. We left the scooter in their parking lot and I dropped the keys with an attached note in their mail slot.

Which bring us up to today. Turns out there is a seal that allows lubrication into the clutch housing. This seal went bad, allowing too much lubricant which contaminated the belt and some other parts. Many of these parts have to come from Germany (they aren't in the States) and the Service Manager figures that could take up to three weeks. He also said we're looking at almost $2,500 in parts alone, though everything should be covered under the warranty.

So that's where we stand. In the meantime I learned my local BMW Dealer is now the exclusive Long Island distributor for ZERO. Maybe once I get the scooter back it'll be time to trade it in towards a top-of-the-line Zero SR and use that for commuting duty, and use my tried-and-true trusty K1200LT for everything else...
 
Hating to hear this. I'm glad it didn't cause an injury Jamie! There is something to say about a bike that is tried-and-true. My lesson is that if anything seems not "right" I'll get it in to the dealer and refuse to ride for fear of death so they take a look at it without turning me away.
 
That's too bad; especially since it happened while you were on a trip. Glad you're ok and hope everything turns out well.
 
I posted about that problem over a year ago, and if I remember correctly, when Greyhound had his clutch replaced, that inner seal was bad and he missed our Sierras Four Passes tour and most of the summer waiting on parts. It was a substandard, cheap design on EVERY BMW scoot made, and was replaced (NOT under recall) with a "better" seal. First in Germany and Europe, next, here.

Hopefully the replacement seal is NOT cheap neoprene, but Viton or another heat-and-oil resistant material. Bad seals on output shafts (behind clutch), bad seals on handlebar switches, bad seals on kickstand switches, bad seals on front struts...looks like they took the cheapest bidder on a lot of parts....
 
Richmond%20Hill-20150625-02537.webp

this is a picture of the seal behind the clutch. i still have not shown it to the dealer. i am pretty sure they would say that it is normal. and not to worry about it. this picture was taken at the 24500km mark and the scooter now has 32000km.

do i need to worry
 
justscootin said:
View attachment 1296

this is a picture of the seal behind the clutch. i still have not shown it to the dealer. i am pretty sure they would say that it is normal. and not to worry about it. this picture was taken at the 24500km mark and the scooter now has 32000km.

do i need to worry
Click to expand...

Doesn't look like it's leaking, a little staining which is nothing. Did you clean it before the picture?
 
Skutorr said:
I posted about that problem over a year ago, and if I remember correctly, when Greyhound had his clutch replaced, that inner seal was bad and he missed our Sierras Four Passes tour and most of the summer waiting on parts. It was a substandard, cheap design on EVERY BMW scoot made, and was replaced (NOT under recall) with a "better" seal. First in Germany and Europe, next, here.

Hopefully the replacement seal is NOT cheap neoprene, but Viton or another heat-and-oil resistant material. Bad seals on output shafts (behind clutch), bad seals on handlebar switches, bad seals on kickstand switches, bad seals on front struts...looks like they took the cheapest bidder on a lot of parts....
Click to expand...

Most manufacturers of anything do that!!
 
Back in 2000 when I had my M2 Cyclone, both rocker boxes were leaking oil before 3,000 miles. The fix was to replace the paper gaskets with metal ones. When I asked the dealer about that, he said "They ALL do that. Buells and Sportsters both leak oil from the rocker boxes until we replace the original gaskets with the metal ones."

Since it was under warranty, it didn't cost me anything but I always wondered WHY, when "they all do that," didn't Harley just use the metal gaskets in the FIRST place?? When the later generation "XB" bikes came out, that is exactly what they did. Those engines were eventually modified for the newer generation Sportsters as well. The paper gaskets were cheaper... but if you KNEW you were going to replace them anyway, why did Harley even bother?

Looks like Snowdog is right: Build it as cheaply as you can get away with and hope you don't have to fix anything later...
 
If BMW's engineering, parts sourcing, or manufacturing is off (or any combination of those things) its going to cost them a few bucks during the first 3 years/36,000 miles (and maybe some lost customers). Obviously, the intent is to put something on the road that will become legendary....and, hopefully, not in a Yugo or Edsel sorta way.:rolleyes:

Probably not a lot different than other manufacturers that use the warranty to cover the initial growing pains. Of course, the further away from HQ various processes get, the more difficult QC becomes. Sure can be frustrating for everyone involved.
 
It is not my understanding that BMW has a reputation for cheap but that doesn't mean they avoid problems.

My scooter experience has been perfect but I've had problems with their cars. I had a 1999 750iL and it was fantastic. I got a new model 740iL when they came out with their new body style and especially all their new rocket ship electronics which I liked. Over the 3 years I leased it - nearly 12 months (for real) - were spent in the shop dealing with a myriad of electrical problems. When it worked I really liked it. They were of course very good to take care of me with problems - I got to drive some nice loaners but they were all downgrades.

When the lease ended I got a Mercedes.

At the time my takeaway was not to get a first year model - even if it is a very expensive one from BMW.

I knew the scooter was a newer model but I got a 2013 and *thought* it would be okay. However - as it worked out - I also got a $1,100 discount and used it to buy a 7-year full warranty just in case.
 
I can say with a high degree of certainty (through personal and corporate business experience) that BMW may be the best engineering company on the planet. I say that not as an engineer but as a finance guy that has to deal with the statistical side of cost/benefit/hedging analysis. I deal with a number of corporate types (not just BMW) that are pretty clueless when it comes to real world manufacturing/outsourcing issues. My impression is that BMW engineers come first, manufacturing protocol second, and parts sourcing third. The engineering folks (and head honchos) are constantly worried about the weakest link. Their goal is to fix problems that appear in the process; not to go cheap...because they know that the cost benefit is greatest if there are no replacement/repair issues.

I know I sound like a BMW shill, but the fact is that we have many U.S. companies with the same high end mind set. If you bought a BMW product, it may not be perfect, but the design process is the best available when all costs are considered at the corporate level....Personally, I just wish guys like Snowdog, Skutorr, and a bunch of other field experts were more part of the parts sourcing and manufacturing process. (That is not meant as a pat on the back for either of those guys....just a fact that when product design and manufacture is too far from real world experts, the likelihood of subpar execution increases.)

(OK...I just realized that I have exposed my "geek" to the whole forum. Sorry about that.)
 
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