2025 Models in the USA? (and maybe a slight rant...)

[wspollack]

We also have a Yamaha scooter, a 300cc Xmax that had listed an 'adjustable' screen which turns out to be, remove the plastic covers, take out the screws and you can reposition the screen up one notch or down. The C650GT however has a true adjustable screen like my previous FJRs and ST1300s, controlled with a left-hand switch.

And I wonder if the "Electronic Immobilizer" is just the side stand parking brake?

Keith Quigley
2020 C650GT

I had any-position (i.e., "analog") electrically adjustable windscreens on my two Burgman 650 scooters. I owned those for a total of 11 years, but hardly ever played with that adjustment, usually just leaving it in the lowest position. And I added a Madstad windscreen to my Victory bagger; that had two knobs for analog adjustment, but I found a sweet spot for that, too, and left it alone.

(By contrast, those "Exec" Burgman models also had electrically folding mirrors, as found on many cars these days (and this was back in 2007, for my first one). I used those almost every time I parked the scoots somewhere -- lunch, errands, rest stops, etc. -- because that made them less likely for passers-by to bump into. I've never heard of another bike that does that, but, alas, those Biggest Burgers are no more.)

A parking brake would be most welcome (as also found on the Burgman scooters, of various sizes, along with scooters from most other manufacturers). From my Beemer gallery (https://billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-16 ):



On the left is a device from an AliExpress vendor, which didn't work out for a couple of reasons. On the right is the device that I bought from Wunderlich USA, and which I keep in the left cubbie.

By the way, the maxiest maxis still sold in the USA include the Kymco AK 550 (and Kymco's recently announced new bigger model may make its way here, in a year or two), along with the leaning three-wheelers from Piaggio and Kymco.

 

[KeithQ]

I had any-position (i.e., "analog") electrically adjustable windscreens on my two Burgman 650 scooters. I owned those for a total of 11 years, but hardly ever played with that adjustment, usually just leaving it in the lowest position. And I added a Madstad windscreen to my Victory bagger; that had two knobs for analog adjustment, but I found a sweet spot for that, too, and left it alone.

(By contrast, those "Exec" Burgman models also had electrically folding mirrors, as found on many cars these days (and this was back in 2007, for my first one). I used those almost every time I parked the scoots somewhere -- lunch, errands, rest stops, etc. -- because that made them less likely for passers-by to bump into. I've never heard of another bike that does that, but, alas, those Biggest Burgers are no more.)

A parking brake would be most welcome (as also found on the Burgman scooters, of various sizes, along with scooters from most other manufacturers). From my Beemer gallery (https://billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-16 ):

View attachment 5475

On the left is a device from an AliExpress vendor, which didn't work out for a couple of reasons. On the right is the device that I bought from Wunderlich USA, and which I keep in the left cubbie.

By the way, the maxiest maxis still sold in the USA include the Kymco AK 550 (and Kymco's recently announced new bigger model may make its way here, in a year or two), along with the leaning three-wheelers from Piaggio and Kymco.

On the Xmax, I change the screen position twice a year; in the summer it is lower (obviously in Texas!0 and then raised up to its highest in winter.

Funny, I would never have thought to have folding side mirrors on a bike but sounds like a nice touch. By the same token, I wondered why in hell BMW gave us auto-cancelling turn signals on the 650 but *not* cruise control! Be happy to turn off my own turn signal for an electronic cruise control. I found my current BMW in Portland, OR and flew up to buy it and ride it back to Texas, just over 2000 miles, in July! Thought I was going to lose my right wrist it hurt so badly after a day or two of holding the throttle. I'd brought a sort of clamp-like throttle lock which did not work for more than a minute or two before slipping. Just order (and received) a Kaoko throttle stabilizer. Will install and see how it goes. Cannot fit the old style Vista cruise.

 

[wspollack]

On the Xmax, I change the screen position twice a year; in the summer it is lower (obviously in Texas!0 and then raised up to its highest in winter.

Funny, I would never have thought to have folding side mirrors on a bike but sounds like a nice touch. By the same token, I wondered why in hell BMW gave us auto-cancelling turn signals on the 650 but *not* cruise control! Be happy to turn off my own turn signal for an electronic cruise control. I found my current BMW in Portland, OR and flew up to buy it and ride it back to Texas, just over 2000 miles, in July! Thought I was going to lose my right wrist it hurt so badly after a day or two of holding the throttle. I'd brought a sort of clamp-like throttle lock which did not work for more than a minute or two before slipping. Just order (and received) a Kaoko throttle stabilizer. Will install and see how it goes. Cannot fit the old style Vista cruise.

1) Here are a couple pics of the folding mirrors on the '08 Burgman, for instance:

Deployed:



Folded in:



2) Stock, my '12 Victory Cross Country Tour had both self-canceling turn signals AND cruise control (with actual throttle push- and pull-cables).

I liked the cruise, of course, but I hated the turn signals. It was a complicated algorithm, involving speed, distance, who knows what. And it quite often turned them off somewhere before I made the turn or lane change, or whatever. That meant that I was paying more attention to them -- possibly having to re-initiate them -- than if I had just old-timey turn signals. The ones on the Beemer work better.

3) I bought the Wunderlich throttle lock, but hardly ever use it. As I mention in my gallery (in this caption: https://billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-12 ), I had forgotten about the Kaoko, and having spent some time on their site and videos, I think the Kaoko is a better throttle lock. Please give a report on it, when you're all set.

(Of course, as I wrote in the thread https://www.bmw-scooters.com/thread...-control-letter-writing-campaign-please.3364/ I now have hopes of adding the real deal, although I'm not holding my breath.)

4) I don't know whether you saw any of my posts on this, but I did a trip about the same length as yours this past May/June: I did a C 400 GT round trip from Albany, NY, to Asheville, NC. It went fine, until I got a flat tire about 100 miles from home, on the way back. Yep, I could've use a real cruise for that trip, but my right wrist didn't bother me much.

 

[KeithQ]

1) Here are a couple pics of the folding mirrors on the '08 Burgman, for instance:

Deployed:

View attachment 5486

Folded in:

View attachment 5487

2) Stock, my '12 Victory Cross Country Tour had both self-canceling turn signals AND cruise control (with actual throttle push- and pull-cables).

I liked the cruise, of course, but I hated the turn signals. It was a complicated algorithm, involving speed, distance, who knows what. And it quite often turned them off somewhere before I made the turn or lane change, or whatever. That meant that I was paying more attention to them -- possibly having to re-initiate them -- than if I had just old-timey turn signals. The ones on the Beemer work better.

3) I bought the Wunderlich throttle lock, but hardly ever use it. As I mention in my gallery (in this caption: https://billanddot.com/C400GT/#S-12 ), I had forgotten about the Kaoko, and having spent some time on their site and videos, I think the Kaoko is a better throttle lock. Please give a report on it, when you're all set.

(Of course, as I wrote in the thread https://www.bmw-scooters.com/thread...-control-letter-writing-campaign-please.3364/ I now have hopes of adding the real deal, although I'm not holding my breath.)

4) I don't know whether you saw any of my posts on this, but I did a trip about the same length as yours this past May/June: I did a C 400 GT round trip from Albany, NY, to Asheville, NC. It went fine, until I got a flat tire about 100 miles from home, on the way back. Yep, I could've use a real cruise for that trip, but my right wrist didn't bother me much.

Sorry to hear about the flat. That is always a drag. I like the Kaoko so far, only used it twice for short trips but seems to hold much better than my old clamp-style. And I see you have added some driving lights. I mounted mine for my previous FJR1300 in the same place. Where did you put the switch and are you going directly to the battery or via a fuse box?

Keith

 

[wspollack]

Sorry to hear about the flat. That is always a drag. I like the Kaoko so far, only used it twice for short trips but seems to hold much better than my old clamp-style. And I see you have added some driving lights. I mounted mine for my previous FJR1300 in the same place. Where did you put the switch and are you going directly to the battery or via a fuse box?

Keith

1) Glad to hear the Kaoko's working out.

2) I think we have some confusion on the light front.

Those mirror pics, above, are of my 2008 Burgman 650, which I bought used in 2016 and sold in 2022. (I also had a 2007 Burgman 650, from 2007 - 2012.) The lights on that bike were put on by the original owner -- my riding buddy, who bought that '08 new.

They were Motolights, and were originally wired to the battery, with their own relay, as I recall. I added some other goodies when I bought the scoot from from my buddy, and at that time I installed Eastern Beaver's PC8:



That was the second bike that I've put a PC-8 on (https://easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8/pc-8.html ); EB is small, but is a super-quality outfit. You can see the PC-8 over in the right cubby. And next to it is the switch that came with the original Motolights. Since I hardly ever turned off those lights -- they're really more for conspicuity than for lighting up the road -- I put that switch in the cubby, too.

(Eastern Beaver now has a newer version of that fuse panel, the PC8-R: https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8R/PC-8R_PDM.html .)

Meanwhile, back to my C 400 GTs, i.e., my '22 and then '23 replacements for that Burgman, I went with Skene Photon Boosters (NOT Photon Blasters, but Photo Boosters: https://skenelights.com/photon-booster-led-modules-pair.html ):



As I haven't ridden at night in a decade or so, and have no plans for doing so, and since the LEDs on the C 400s seem to be very good (I've been in tunnels), I saw no reason to add extra driving lights, that sort of thing. Instead, I find the Photon Boosters to be EXTREMELY bright, and think they do a great job in terms of conspicuity.

I have about 20 images with explanatory captions in my C 400 gallery for this farkle, starting with this particular image:

'23 BMW C 400 GT Shad 59X Top Case Removed

billanddot.com

I didn't add a fuse block to the C 400. As I explain in the gallery, these front LEDs are powered by the unused sat nav connector underneath the handlebar cover. They come on with the ignition, and are shut down 60 seconds after the bike is.

I'm very pleased with the Skene LEDs, also added another Skene product (but the same LED modules) out back ... and did the whole thing twice, when my '22 was replaced with a '23.

So that's the whole story on all of this.

 

[KeithQ]

1) Glad to hear the Kaoko's working out.

2) I think we have some confusion on the light front.

Those mirror pics, above, are of my 2008 Burgman 650, which I bought used in 2016 and sold in 2022. (I also had a 2007 Burgman 650, from 2007 - 2012.) The lights on that bike were put on by the original owner -- my riding buddy, who bought that '08 new.

They were Motolights, and were originally wired to the battery, with their own relay, as I recall. I added some other goodies when I bought the scoot from from my buddy, and at that time I installed Eastern Beaver's PC8:



That was the second bike that I've put a PC-8 on (https://easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8/pc-8.html ); EB is small, but is a super-quality outfit. You can see the PC-8 over in the right cubby. And next to it is the switch that came with the original Motolights. Since I hardly ever turned off those lights -- they're really more for conspicuity than for lighting up the road -- I put that switch in the cubby, too.

(Eastern Beaver now has a newer version of that fuse panel, the PC8-R: https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8R/PC-8R_PDM.html .)

Meanwhile, back to my C 400 GTs, i.e., my '22 and then '23 replacements for that Burgman, I went with Skene Photon Boosters (NOT Photon Blasters, but Photo Boosters: https://skenelights.com/photon-booster-led-modules-pair.html ):



As I haven't ridden at night in a decade or so, and have no plans for doing so, and since the LEDs on the C 400s seem to be very good (I've been in tunnels), I saw no reason to add extra driving lights, that sort of thing. Instead, I find the Photon Boosters to be EXTREMELY bright, and think they do a great job in terms of conspicuity.

I have about 20 images with explanatory captions in my C 400 gallery for this farkle, starting with this particular image:

'23 BMW C 400 GT Shad 59X Top Case Removed

billanddot.com

I didn't add a fuse block to the C 400. As I explain in the gallery, these front LEDs are powered by the unused sat nav connector underneath the handlebar cover. They come on with the ignition, and are shut down 60 seconds after the bike is.

I'm very pleased with the Skene LEDs, also added another Skene product (but the same LED modules) out back ... and did the whole thing twice, when my '22 was replaced with a '23.

So that's the whole story on all of this.

Ha, I have used Eastern Beaver on my last 3 sport touring bikes, an ST1300 and an FJR1300. They make excellent stuff. I even did a video for them documenting my 900GT install for some price consideration! That one was an interim bike between FJRs. Thought I wanted a light bike but did not care for the first year Yamaha triple. I was using Denali lights. Installed mine under the seat. It ran my Denali's, a Garmin Zumo, heated jacket and a rear light 'safety' LED kit from Admore. https://admorelighting.com/product/...=USD&attribute_pa_lens=clear-lens#description

 

[Harry Hippy]

The new spec C400GT is available in the UK. As well as the C400X.
They were both on show at my local BMW dealers.

As it’s only 10 miles away. I will try and take some photos next time I’m there.

 

[Harry Hippy]

A few snaps of the slightly updated C400X.

 

[Harry Hippy]

Plus a few of the new C400GT.

Small fault spotted on the rear part of the seat.
If I hadn’t just changed my car and bike. I might be tempted with the new GT.

 

[wspollack]

@Happy Harry :

- Thanks for the pics.

- Looks like that circular thing at the back may be the cover for an electrical connection to the new top case.

- I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a BMW dealership that sells both cars and bikes. The dealerships in the USA seem to be one or the other.

 

[Harry Hippy]

I guess nearly all the UK BMW dealers sell Cars these days.
It hasn’t always been the case. We previously had Bike only dealers.

Circular cover on rack is power to a top box.
Looks similar to the R1300GS.

Perhaps they’re looking to standardise on these sort of things.

 

[mgg]

I guess nearly all the UK BMW dealers sell Cars these days.
It hasn’t always been the case. We previously had Bike only dealers.

Maybe they are changing their business modle. Here in the Chicago/Milwaukee area it is either bikes or cars. The bike dealers usually carry different brands of bikes as well. My dealer features BMW, Ducoti, and Royal Enfield.

 

[OM3RTA]

Plus a few of the new C400GT.

Small fault spotted on the rear part of the seat.
If I hadn’t just changed my car and bike. I might be tempted with the new GT.

View attachment 5514View attachment 5515View attachment 5517View attachment 5518View attachment 5519

Is the new screen as big on the bike as it looks in the pics?
I might have a nose around my nearest dealer soon as I'm keen to see how they carved more storage space into '25.

 

[OM3RTA]

A few snaps of the slightly updated C400X.
View attachment 5508View attachment 5509View attachment 5513View attachment 5511View attachment 5512

Nice colour this, shame about the 'face' though.

 

[KeithQ]

Does the "rugged" decal easily peel off I wonder?! But otherwise a nice looking design change on the 400.

 

[Harry Hippy]

Does the "rugged" decal easily peel off I wonder?! But otherwise a nice looking design change on the 400.

I would imagine it does. But obviously didn’t try. Tempted.

 

[Buzzard II]

I've been following this thread with interest. I'm 75 with advanced decrepitude (arthritis) and about to sell or trade my Gold Wing for a C400GT. I really have to downsize. I don't care about the lack of cruise control as I don't use it much on the Wing. I do use a throttle rocker on highway rides. The 80 MPH limit might be a problem when I make my once a year trip to Americade using mostly interstates. I wonder if its controlled by the ABS "tone ring" like the Vespa which can be switched out with a rear tire change?

I hope in the next few weeks to make the move because my local dealer has the Diamond White model in stock and that's what I want. Who knows, maybe see Bill P. In Lake George the end of May.

BTW, i've never had a throttle rocker slip on a grip and have been using them for decades. I love it. I did have a throttle locking device in 1976 for my F750 Honda it would always slip that first little bit. Never again.

 

[mgg]

I've been following this thread with interest. I'm 75 with advanced decrepitude (arthritis) and about to sell or trade my Gold Wing for a C400GT. I really have to downsize. I don't care about the lack of cruise control as I don't use it much on the Wing. I do use a throttle rocker on highway rides. The 80 MPH limit might be a problem when I make my once a year trip to Americade using mostly interstates. I wonder if its controlled by the ABS "tone ring" like the Vespa which can be switched out with a rear tire change?

I hope in the next few weeks to make the move because my local dealer has the Diamond White model in stock and that's what I want. Who knows, maybe see Bill P. In Lake George the end of May.

BTW, i've never had a throttle rocker slip on a grip and have been using them for decades. I love it. I did have a throttle locking device in 1976 for my F750 Honda it would always slip that first little bit. Never again.

Welcome to the group.
I'm 70 with arthritis and downsized from my Indian Challenger. It was just too big for me to handle. Backing up on a incline was a real issue. Because I ride on a lot of tails I sometimes get into these issues.

I think the new C 400gt's spec the top speed at 80 but I wonder if that is not BMW just being conservative as they all have the same engine. Until this year it has been speced at 86 mph which mine and others will do GPS verified.

I looked for a 15" rear tire with the next higher aspect ratio and could not find one in a scooter tire. This would solve the issue of the speedometer reading a little high as well as boost the speed a little. If you find one please let us know.

If I were going to do a lot of highway riding I would want my bike to have a little more top end, however I have been on the highway with this scooter many times and have had no issues. It pulls strong at 75 MPH. (For some reason I always want more power even if I never use it.) I know some people ride more aggressivly than me. For my short 25 to 40 mile highway romps it has been more than I have used. Also there is a guy on the internet that did an Iron But ride (1000 miles in less than 24 hours) on this scooter. (I think he did it in less than 23 hours.) So I know it can do it.

I have used a Throttle Rocker and had no issues, however I put foam grips over the stock grips.

Again Welcome
There is a great deal of super information on this site and it keeps getting better.

 

[KeithQ]

Curiously, Kymco's CV3 -- here in the USofA -- has cruise control standard. This is a properly leaning three-wheeler (as opposed to, say, Can-Am's Spyder and Ryker, which may be fun, but don't lean the "right" way). It is essentially an AK 550 -- the Premium version of that donor bike -- from the triple-tree on backwards:

2023 CV3 - Kymco USA

2023CV3 $11,999 MSRP* Adventure Touring In Style Discover a new journey of life with Kymco’s first 3-Wheel Scooter in cross-over style. THE LUXURY OF DISCOVERY It’s the Noodoe IOT navigation system that guides you on all of your adventures – whether you’re taking the back roads in a national...

kymcousa.com

Speaking of leaning three-wheelers:

I rented a Piaggio MP3 around the time they first came out, just to check them out. This was whilst on vacation in Wildwood, NJ, 2008:

View attachment 5372

Tootled around town, with my wife out back. Very handy in gravel parking lots. And, like the CV3, has a nice feature whereby you can lock the forks when coming to a stop, so you don't have to put a foot down.

Oh, and the latest version of the MP3 (with a much larger engine than the one I rented) is sold here ... and has cruise control:

Piaggio MP3

www.piaggio.com

In 2019, I rented a Yamaha Niken for a week in the Alps with Edelweiss:

View attachment 5373

That has a 900cc Triple for engine, moves out with authority, and I appreciated the extra contact patch. Oh, and it had cruise control, but I think I used it only once, for a few minutes. Unfortunately, it is very tall, top-heavy, and certainly does NOT have any tilt-lock: I dropped it -- twice -- myself. (And I don't think Yamaha is importing them here anymore.)

Just another option, especially for geezers like me, if I stay healthy-ish for a few more years.

That was a great comparison video. Thanks.

 

[mgg]

I wish they would import the AK550. I'm not ready for 3 wheels yet. The AK has everything I want.
More Power
Cruise
TPMS
Adjustable Windshield
Then when I get older it would be a natural move to the MP3.