complaints filed - disgusted with BMW

[MRJB]

My previous post "disappointed with BMW" needed to be updated. Now I'm disgusted with BMW to the point of lodging multiple complaints.

As background, the gas gauge and related mpg readings haven't worked since I bought the bike in 8/13. One attempted fix failed. I contacted BMW about nine times over the last almost 200 days but they haven't done anything. Throw in occasional cold weather stalling and now a side stand recall and I have no faith I BMW.

I have sent consumer complaints to the BBB and my state Attorney General office, followed by a safety complaint with the NHTSB. I also have reached out to my local paper (circulation 800,000) for help through their consumer rights column.

The sad thing is I like the bike, but to quote another rider post, "BMW doesn't care about me."

 

[JaimeC]

Very sad. Fortunately I've never found myself in this situation. Please do keep us posted.

 

[Skutorr]

Now you know how they feel on the Italian BMW Forum...unalloyed Cognitive Dissonance! They LOVE the bikes...when they work. They HATE the cheap corner-cutting BMW did which has led to dozens of mechanical problems, reliability concerns and engine failures.

I joined THIS Forum to get tuned-in to the C600 with an eye to replacing my Tmax500 in the near future with it. NOW? When the Moderator of the Italian Forum himself has stated, on the Forum that BMW sponsors, that he wishes he had never sold his Tmax530 to get the C600, it gives me pause, to say the least. I SO WISH that BMW had done all their homework, first.

The work-around in Europe seems to be "F-it! I'll ride the CRAP out of it and they can keep fixing it during the 3 year warrantee...." One guy is on his THIRD C600, the previous two were irreparable...

But after the warrantee is up? Some have given up and taken them BACK to the dealer who sold it to them, and pretty-much got a straight across trade for a replacement Tmax530...

 

[SteveADV]

So I went on the Italian forum and used google translator. It's really funny....although this subject matter is not. There are former TMax people that love their Beemer and comments about problems with both; including accusations of rumors being started by non-Beemer owners. I hoped to learn a little more about the problems because I have had zero in the first 5,200 miles of ownership and wanted to be on the look-out for any that might arise...especially because I am not the mechanic that so many others are on this site. The Italian forum is interesting, but not much help to me.

I also did a search to try to find the thread from last year where a Beemer owner had some severe mechanical problems and was unhappy because of what seemed to be a lack of customer service, let alone the issues with the bike. No luck finding that thread, but I think that was resolved by the unhappy customer getting a new bike. I wish you the same good luck MRJB.

 

[Oldscoot]

I joined THIS Forum to get tuned-in to the C600 with an eye to replacing my Tmax500 in the near future with it. NOW?

Skutorr - I mentioned you to a salesman at our local BMW/Yamaha dealer. He's got the sweetest 2009 T-Max I've ever seen and I told him that you are a T-Max expert. Now here is the sad part. I bought my C600 Sport because I could not get a T-Max. I'm a Yamaha guy from the 1960s. Yamaha may or may not ever bring the T-Max back to the U.S. as they got burned so badly before. So, I've not had problems so far (knock wood) and my C600 is a kick ass, good looking sport scoot. I don't have the stats to know how prevalent problems are with the bike are but squeaky wheels always make the most noise.

BMW will ultimately do what is in BMW's best interests. Replacing everyone's bike several times in 3 years is not in their business model. Time will tell.

 

[Skutorr]

I test road the C600, and compared to my Tmax 500 (as stock) it's a HUGE improvement, about equivalent to mine with all the mods done. So, just a bit of re-tuning and it should be a BEAST...and that's what they call it in Europe! You are starting with a much bigger motor; what potential!

But, the big drawbacks for me were the sheer number and variety of "teething problems" that have not really been addressed by BMW, and the relatively minimal aftermarket support.

Then again, what other available option was there? Silverwing? Burgman? All old tech, ready for the dust bin. Hence my frustration with BMW and their new bike issues. This is Model Year Three...and the colors are different? That's IT?? Same mechanical issues, etc. since day ONE. And new ones keep cropping up. I'd understand that if the U.S., with NO COMPETITION, was their primary market, but these issues are really hurting them in Europe, and they just warrantee them and move on. All the initial excitement has paled over there, and their competition is pulling ahead, as the market shares of the Integra, Tmax and Burgman are now getting back some of the sales they lost to BMW.

I had been hoping for good, used ones to start showing up with the initial depreciation hit taken, that would be a price I could afford...but not if I was just inheriting someone else's problem.

So, I now have two choices;

1.) get a clean, low-mileage C600, buy an extended warrantee (if available?), which would preclude the routinely practiced upgrades to the clutch and variator, and cross my fingers, or

2.) get a BULLETPROOF low-mileage Tmax530 out of Canada.

They'll cost about the same to do. And now there are rumors of the next Tmax model, the 2016, to be out in the fall next year. Bigger engine and who knows WHAT else. Maybe they would bring THAT back to the U.S.?

 

[Xian Forbes]

I'd be very interested in really knowing about that fella who had had his c6 replaced three times. Actually I'd like to talk with his friends to get another side to that story. One replacement, ok. Twice seems odd but whatever. Three seems very strange. Like what's the probability of that actually happening? Could It be possible that the riders habits are less than gentle on the machine? My buddy has a new GTS, with a one year warrantee from Piaggio. When he took possession of the bike he said "let's just ride the wheels off this thing and get a replacement before the year is up". So he rides from San Jose to Sacramento like twice or more a week to visit his lady friend at Full Throttle all the damn time. I know this because I went with him once and he rides like a teenager on his first dirt bike, 80+ the whole way, literally Full Throttle from the time the motor is started till he arrives. Yup, he destroyed it. Just like I thought he would. It needed new rings, water pump, variator, belts, ect. I don't doubt there are inherent problems with a Mk1 of any model, but some stories I've heard do make me wonder how these troubled bikes are being ridden. I'm on to 7k trouble free miles...knock wood. And I expect my bike to be reasonably trouble free as long as I ride like an experienced motorcyclist and keep to the maintenance and preventative maintenance schedule.

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[Skutorr]

The guy on his third C600, it went like this;

1.) clutch problems on original C600; dealer repaired, then timing tensioner failed and valves holed a piston. BMW couldn't supply a replacement engine, so they just replaced the scoot.

2.) replacement bike very quickly also had clutch issues; chattering, noisy, etc. Dealer repaired; by the time he got it home it was even worse.

3.) dealer swapped him another bike; everything has been fine now for a while.

Apparently BMW went the extra mile trying to ensure a trouble free C600, whatever it took. Good for them!

 

[Oldscoot]

Not having an inventory of spare parts for a new model is not just a BMW issue. On the other side of the PTW spectrum is my Genuine Stella 4T automatic. With just two weeks after my taking ownership a delivery truck ran into it while backing up. No animals or humans were seriously hurt in the making of this accident (borrowed from film). The impact was slow speed but it resulted in significant damage. I was told by the dealer that new parts would not be available for two or more months because it was a new model. When the inspectors from the delivery company's insurance carrier showed up to photograph and inspect the bike I am told the shop owner told them that I was a bored, retired lawyer who loved his toys and had plenty of time on my hands to make trouble. I believe that this information, their driver's admitted negligence, damage to the frame, along with the unavailability of replacement parts convinced them to total the vehicle. I would have been really pissed to sit out months of the Spring riding season waiting on parts. As soon as I get a final commitment I will order another one.

 

[Lcdrakallen]

So far I am as happy as a clam. I have no complaints. I think the security of 3 yrs 36K miles, addresses the companies commitment to customer satisfaction. I'll keep you posted, but so far great! If a complaint does arise, I hope it's within the specified time frame 😄.


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[Xian Forbes]

I experienced the clutch chatter on my bike. It eventually went away and has been non issue. I guess I figured, after already having some cvt experience, that if it failed it failed and let's just see what it does. Eventually everything smothed out. I guess in my mind I thought the little feet inside the clutch were seating themselves. Anyway, it only occured at slow speeds when accelerating. It was disconcerting, but until it got way bad I let that strange dry fiction thing sort itself out. Which it did after a month, so about 1,000 miles. I thought the clutch acted differently at different heat levels, so I thought it was some glazing or something. Thanks for the information. I want to believe that the chain tensioner is the bugaboo for our bikes. When it does sound clangy I either let it warm up and let the oil thin out or shut the bike off, let pressure drop to zero and try again. Some days it sounds loud and other days its dead quiet. A spring and a nylon pressure plate would bee much better.

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[exavid]

I get a little bit of clutch chatter now and then but not very often. I don't worry about it and had it a few times on the Silverwing which is just about completely bulletproof. It seems to be the nature of the beasts certain engine speed and loads can cause it. It never seems to last for more than a few seconds when it occurs and usually when a good bit of throttle is applied at low speed.

 

[helmetbox]

I experienced the clutch chatter on my bike. It eventually went away and has been non issue. I guess I figured, after already having some cvt experience, that if it failed it failed and let's just see what it does. Eventually everything smothed out. I guess in my mind I thought the little feet inside the clutch were seating themselves. Anyway, it only occured at slow speeds when accelerating. It was disconcerting, but until it got way bad I let that strange dry fiction thing sort itself out. Which it did after a month, so about 1,000 miles. I thought the clutch acted differently at different heat levels, so I thought it was some glazing or something. Thanks for the information. I want to believe that the chain tensioner is the bugaboo for our bikes. When it does sound clangy I either let it warm up and let the oil thin out or shut the bike off, let pressure drop to zero and try again. Some days it sounds loud and other days its dead quiet. A spring and a nylon pressure plate would bee much better.

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Happen to my Silverwing too. Just give the bike a few hard acceleration and everything will be fine.

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[Skutorr]

I experienced the clutch chatter on my bike. It eventually went away and has been non issue. I guess I figured, after already having some cvt experience, that if it failed it failed and let's just see what it does. Eventually everything smothed out. I guess in my mind I thought the little feet inside the clutch were seating themselves. Anyway, it only occured at slow speeds when accelerating. It was disconcerting, but until it got way bad I let that strange dry fiction thing sort itself out. Which it did after a month, so about 1,000 miles. I thought the clutch acted differently at different heat levels, so I thought it was some glazing or something. Thanks for the information. I want to believe that the chain tensioner is the bugaboo for our bikes. When it does sound clangy I either let it warm up and let the oil thin out or shut the bike off, let pressure drop to zero and try again. Some days it sounds loud and other days its dead quiet. A spring and a nylon pressure plate would bee much better.

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Try talking to the dealer about it. In Europe, when the tensioner/chain system is noisy they don't wait for a failure any more, but the dealer proactively replaces the tensioner ("tendicatena" in Italian) with an apparently UPGRADED one, and also the chain/guides/cam gears if necessary.

If you look at it, swapping the externally-mounted tensioner is really pretty easy. There might be a TSB on the tensioners that will allow the dealer to warrantee it w/o waiting for it to fail...

 

[Xian Forbes]

My bike. goes in tomorrow a.m. so the tensioner is first on my list of questions that need answers.

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[MRJB]

Got an email and voicemail asking me to take to the dealer (to confirm there is a problem?). I got the recall notice too so will wait until the parts come in. Will keep you in the loop. Thanks for the support.

 

[MRJB]

Finally got the bike in - took 3 weeks to get the side stand recall parts... Looks like the fix didn't take (reloaded software in the computer again). Per the gauge, I went 70 miles on an eighth of a tank. Average mpg was 63.5 (about 20 over the actual). The in motion mpg number, at any constant speed, pegs at 199.9 mpg.

Will see what BMW's "solution" is now.

 

[ItsPhilD]

Finally got the bike in - took 3 weeks to get the side stand recall parts... Looks like the fix didn't take (reloaded software in the computer again). Per the gauge, I went 70 miles on an eighth of a tank. Average mpg was 63.5 (about 20 over the actual). The in motion mpg number, at any constant speed, pegs at 199.9 mpg.

Will see what BMW's "solution" is now.

They had to replace the computer that runs the dash on my GT.


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[MRJB]

They had to replace the computer that runs the dash on my GT.


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I gave Customer Service your fix but no acknowledgement. The plan now is a BMW Field Service Engineer is going to inspect the bike this week.

 

[Xian Forbes]

Field Tech... I'm on that boat right now. Good thing is, Those Techs have a direct line to BMW to get approval for replacements. Bad thing is, they do cover a large area so it can take some time. Since he's in there, mention the timing chain tensioner and the clutch. Both are items that folks have had issues with. I have a leaky seal getting repaired and an entire clutch assy. on order..recommendations from the field tech. I'm without my bike 4 weeks. Good luck on your repairs.

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